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03-19-2012, 05:25 PM
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It's however you interpret the question...
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: On A Savage Journey to the Heart of the American Dream
Gender: Bender
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When Art Feels Futile
I don't know why exactly, but the more deeply I've invested myself in art, the more it seems useless... even bad for me. I think it gets in the way of my relationships with people or something... I don't know.
Mostly I feel like creativity is the only thing I've ever really had a knack for, but it doesn't help people the way, say, a nurse does... or a caretaker, or whatever. My friends tell me it's worthwhile for psychological development and that I'll be helping others by helping them express themselves through example. I understand that, but, what if my artwork is just mostly unhappy and depressing?
What's the point?
Maybe it's not the medium so much as it is just me. What if I'm not good at the only thing I'm supposed to be good at, you know?
eh.
I just feel a lot of crushing disappointment lately. Fuck.
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03-19-2012, 05:43 PM
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It's however you interpret the question...
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: On A Savage Journey to the Heart of the American Dream
Gender: Bender
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Re: When Art Feels Futile
I guess all I am saying is... adulthood sucks. Modern life sucks. And I don't feel like living anymore.
Writing a poem about it isn't gonna do me any god damn good. FFFFfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffuuu
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03-19-2012, 05:49 PM
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puzzler
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UK
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Re: When Art Feels Futile
I prescribe some physical activity, preferably outside. You could go for some walks or bike rides, or do some yard work or gardening if you have a yard or garden available.
That will make you feel better, and it may give you some material for poems too.
__________________
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03-19-2012, 05:52 PM
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It's however you interpret the question...
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: On A Savage Journey to the Heart of the American Dream
Gender: Bender
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Re: When Art Feels Futile
Yeah... I can't even go for a walk without pumping music into my head. I'm legitimately an insane person.
I'm sorry .
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03-19-2012, 05:55 PM
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Coffin Creep
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The nightmare realm
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Re: When Art Feels Futile
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo
I guess all I am saying is... adulthood sucks. Modern life sucks. And I don't feel like living anymore.
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I can direct you to some pretty good bands and fashion tips.
__________________
Much of MADNESS, and more of SIN, and HORROR the soul of the plot.
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03-19-2012, 05:56 PM
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Fishy mokey
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Furrin parts
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Re: When Art Feels Futile
Fashion Tips for the Clinically Depressed
Now there's a bestseller waiting for a mass audience...
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03-19-2012, 05:58 PM
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Adequately Crumbulent
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cascadia
Gender: Male
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Re: When Art Feels Futile
I'm sorry you are feeling down, Gonzo. I don't know that I really have any good advice. Things can be very depressing and disappointing. You have to search hard for those things that make you feel better. The people, activities, entertainments, whatever. Especially when things are really bad you have to find the positive things to focus on. Even little things can be a big help.
You certainly have no need to apologize to us.
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03-19-2012, 05:58 PM
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an angry unicorn or a non-murdering leprechaun
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edge of Society
Gender: Female
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Re: When Art Feels Futile
I am sorry that you are feeling that way, G.
Art isn't useless, though it's value is much less tangible than say the work of a nurse or a bricklayer. I always say that the creative pursuit is a personal one. It isn't for others, it is for your own expression. In many ways it is a totally selfish pursuit, but that is not necessarily a bad thing.
In what ways does it seem bad for you? If it is the solitary time pursuing it, I think finding balance between work and social time is worth while. Self expression and self exploration through creativity will over time improve your relationships with others. It is a way to know yourself which will help you relate with and connect with other people. At least that is what it does for me.
That definitely includes the dark and depressing aspects of life as well. Facing my demons through art is of great therapeutic value to me. A better me makes for a better world, even if it is just my small corner of it.
__________________
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03-19-2012, 06:08 PM
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an angry unicorn or a non-murdering leprechaun
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edge of Society
Gender: Female
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Re: When Art Feels Futile
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo
I guess all I am saying is... adulthood sucks. Modern life sucks. And I don't feel like living anymore.
Writing a poem about it isn't gonna do me any god damn good. FFFFfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffuuu
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How long have you felt like this? Because that does sound like depression. If feelings of hopelessness or not wanting to live persist for more than two months, you may want to talk to a doctor.
I also highly recommend The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron. It based on a class that she taught at the Learning Annex in NY to help artist's tap their creativity. But it expanded more into a philosophical approach to learning to live as a creative spirit. It also has practical exercises and lessons that can get you out and about if you are depressed, which is why I have also had several counselors recommend it to me.
I think you might really enjoy it, I know I did.
__________________
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03-19-2012, 06:46 PM
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It's however you interpret the question...
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: On A Savage Journey to the Heart of the American Dream
Gender: Bender
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Re: When Art Feels Futile
I wish I could tell my whole life story, but whenever I write it out, I realize it's all way too personal.
Repression.
Yeah, I've had suicidal thoughts for about 5 years straight. I would say I'm probably manic depressive.
This is why I need art. The truth is just way too fucked up for me to deal with talking about. I'm past most of it, now, but the present isn't much better. In a lot of ways, it's just getting worse and there is nothing I can do about it.
That's not to say I never have any fun. I have plenty of fun. I just can't help but be hopeless for the future of myself, my community, and overall, this world.
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03-19-2012, 07:01 PM
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Coffin Creep
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The nightmare realm
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Re: When Art Feels Futile
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo
I just can't help but be hopeless for the future of myself, my community, and overall, this world.
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One of the most important things in learning to cope is living in the present day. "Let the day's troubles be sufficient for the day." Good advice, terrible book. If you find yourself dwelling on the future, distract yourself somehow. Repetitive tasks like cleaning have helped me in the past.
__________________
Much of MADNESS, and more of SIN, and HORROR the soul of the plot.
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03-19-2012, 07:03 PM
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professional left-winger
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Re: When Art Feels Futile
{{{Gonzo}}}
I can totally relate to what you're saying about art. It's something I struggle with constantly. I have periods where I wake up every morning seriously considering giving it all up forever. They say you're only as good as your last painting (or poem, or song, or drawing, or whatever), I say you're only as good as the next one.
Art does have a place, it is important, it can change lives and it can change the world. Part of your job is to know that what you do is part of that. That's hard, though, and I think it takes no small amount of self-confidence.
And then you have the everyday, real-world nuts & bolts part of it. Getting it out there. Trying to sell it. Deciding if you should do art that most people would never put in their homes or if you should do art that is easy to sell, but maybe doesn't say anything more than "look at the pretty". I try to walk somewhere between, but I don't know if that's the right way to go.
You are a smart, sensitive, thoughtful person, Gonzo. I'm sure you will find your way, but I think you'll probably be checking your map very regularly. And I think that's probably the way it should be.
__________________
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03-19-2012, 07:19 PM
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It's however you interpret the question...
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: On A Savage Journey to the Heart of the American Dream
Gender: Bender
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Re: When Art Feels Futile
here's my last drawing... it's called EQUALITY
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03-19-2012, 07:20 PM
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Coffin Creep
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The nightmare realm
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Re: When Art Feels Futile
No bisected ween?
It makes me think of the old Slaaneshi daemonettes.
__________________
Much of MADNESS, and more of SIN, and HORROR the soul of the plot.
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03-19-2012, 07:36 PM
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Spiffiest wanger
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Re: When Art Feels Futile
Gonzo, I think a creative person should create. It's what you were meant to do. It doesn't always mean that creating stuff will make life better. It might make it worse. But what's the alternative? In the long run if you feel that art is futile and give it up, you give up an essential part of yourself and that can't be good. See the story of Rimbaud, for example.
I don't know that helps any, but I wanted to say it.
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03-19-2012, 07:58 PM
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the internet says I'm right
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Western U.S.
Gender: Male
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Re: When Art Feels Futile
My own struggles with depression tend to make me pseudo-catatonic, unwilling to engage in any activities in which I normally find enjoyment or meaning. I know it's often different for everyone, so I can't promise this will work, but for myself: when I'm at my worst, sitting around the house, skipping classes, work, letting messes pile up, and even finding my usual escapes empty and unsatisfying, the best thing I've found to tip the scales and get me motivated again is to do something physical. Something difficult that requires my mental engagement as well like martial arts is usually best, but just jogging works sometimes. This doesn't instantly flip a switch or anything, but it exhausts me and I go to sleep physically tired instead of just bored. I usually wake up feeling better and interested in doing things again.
The two problems I still have with this approach are, first, that when I'm that far into a depression I often can't get myself to do something like that on my own, and someone else pushing me into it still evokes feelings of resentment at times, so it can be a strain on my friendships and marriage. Second, I don't exercise as a regular habit, so when I do for this I tend to overdo it and wake up mentally re-centered but physically very sore.
The most important thing I can think to say, however, is not to let yourself be alone with your depression. Not necessarily literally - some time away from people often helps me - but figuratively. In my experience, most people who care about you either won't know you well enough or won't be intimate enough with your daily life to recognize any outward signs that you're depressed, so people that genuinely care about you won't even know there's a problem. Just talk to someone, whether in person or online like you're doing here. I won't say it always helps in and of itself, but it's the only way most people will know that you even need help when it comes to depression.
__________________
For Science!Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
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03-19-2012, 08:09 PM
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I read some of your foolish scree, then just skimmed the rest.
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bay Area
Gender: Male
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Re: When Art Feels Futile
Art is amazing and the world would be a boring drab place without it. Doctors and nurses do a great job keeping people healthier longer so they can create and view more art.
I've found making art is required for my mental well being, although sometimes getting out and away from it is good too.
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03-19-2012, 08:28 PM
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Admin of THIEVES and SLUGABEDS
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Re: When Art Feels Futile
When my mother was a psychiatric nurse in the mid-60s, she had a patient who had experienced a trauma and had completely shut down as a result. She could not/would not speak. Nothing the psychiatrists said or did made any difference. Then another nurse on staff played her Simon & Garfunkel's Sounds of Silence and she started to cry, then sob, then talk.
Art and human feeling are inextricably bound. Sometimes the relationship can fraught, even damaging; sometimes it's liberating. What it's not is meaningless. From my perspective, it's among the most meaningful aspects of this stupid mortal coil we shuffle along.
I hope very much that you have resources that you can avail yourself of, Gonzo. Do people close to you irl know of your depression?
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03-19-2012, 08:29 PM
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Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
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Re: When Art Feels Futile
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo
I wish I could tell my whole life story, but whenever I write it out, I realize it's all way too personal.
Repression.
Yeah, I've had suicidal thoughts for about 5 years straight. I would say I'm probably manic depressive.
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Take that off the table. It's not an option.
You've got lots of other stuff to deal with, but if you were to do that, it would completely destroy those who care about you most.
You have a mother, and I don't know much of anything about her, but I know that would be the worst thing that could happen to her, and she'd be ruined. Permanently. She would not bounce back. That doesn't happen.
When you start thinking about things like that, and you can't think of any other reason you want to go on, take it off the table for your mother's sake, and for everyone else who cares about you.
Then, you need to go see somebody and get diagnosed and treated. Then, you need to make a whole bunch of contingency plans and develop your own tools to manage this.
Maybe when you don't feel like you have much use for yourself, go ahead and let someone else use you for a while. You're young and healthy, and there are probably lots of people out there who could use a young man like you for a few hours to do some kind of chores or maintenance or something. If you're going to be miserable anyway, go be miserable painting an old person's house or cleaning their gutters or hosing down kennels at the pound or something. Also do things you never do. Interrupt the cycle.
And your misery will pass, you'll work on it over the long term, learn to manage it and develop your own coping skills and techniques, and you'll be OK and really glad you did, and so will everyone else.
Life is unfair and sucks a lot, and it always has been like that. However, it's also pretty great. Things aren't going to hell as hard as you think. If you look at things historically, it's probably always seemed as though we were on the brink of total disaster no matter when you looked at it.
And yet, there's always been plenty of really great stuff and the things that seemed insurmountable were surmounted, and other things came up. That always happens, and it probably always will. Do what you can to contribute to making things better for everyone, and find things that make it better for you, because that really helps everyone too. Your art makes things better than you probably realize, and that really is important.
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03-19-2012, 08:41 PM
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Coffin Creep
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The nightmare realm
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Re: When Art Feels Futile
Quote:
Originally Posted by livius drusus
Then another nurse on staff played her Simon & Garfunkel's Sounds of Silence and she started to cry, then sob, then talk.
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I've always liked that song.
__________________
Much of MADNESS, and more of SIN, and HORROR the soul of the plot.
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03-19-2012, 08:57 PM
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A Very Gentle Bort
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bortlandia
Gender: Male
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Re: When Art Feels Futile
I'm not good at talking with people who are depressed (or manic or whatever). It's not something I've ever had to do or have any real experience with. The only thing I think to tell you is that I love you, man. This place, this world would be much smaller and a lot less without you around.
__________________
\V/_ I COVLD TEACh YOV BVT I MVST LEVY A FEE
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03-19-2012, 09:00 PM
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Coffin Creep
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The nightmare realm
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Re: When Art Feels Futile
I've been depressed most of my life and it isn't easy talking to other depressed people regardless. It is such a personal matter that it is almost by definition an intimate discussion. Saying that you care and demonstrating it definitely helps though.
__________________
Much of MADNESS, and more of SIN, and HORROR the soul of the plot.
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03-19-2012, 09:03 PM
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ne plus ultraviolet
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Portland Oregon USA
Gender: Male
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Re: When Art Feels Futile
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo
I wish I could tell my whole life story, but whenever I write it out, I realize it's all way too personal.
Repression.
Yeah, I've had suicidal thoughts for about 5 years straight. I would say I'm probably manic depressive.
This is why I need art. The truth is just way too fucked up for me to deal with talking about. I'm past most of it, now, but the present isn't much better. In a lot of ways, it's just getting worse and there is nothing I can do about it.
That's not to say I never have any fun. I have plenty of fun. I just can't help but be hopeless for the future of myself, my community, and overall, this world.
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I can relate to having had suicidal thoughts, especially in my teens and twenties. I also often felt hopeless about the future, humanity, and the world.
A couple things were useful to me:
1. Looking at how I thought, especially what I tell myself. I tended to tell myself a lot of things that weren't true, and get into a reinforcement cycle. Going through steps to identify common thinking errors and then writing down my self talk (what I am saying to myself in my head), and asking myself if it is true, and what is actually true, helped a lot. It took practice.
Example of self talk: I'm always fucking things up. I have to do better. Everything I touch turns to shit. The world shouldn't be this way. Why are people so evil and shortsighted?
Example of thinking errors: always is an absolute. Fucking is a loaded word. Saying you have to is inaccurate. Everything is an absolute, and shit is a loaded word. Shouldn't is erroneous: that the world isn't the way one wants it to be is not the same as how it should or shouldn't be. The last sentence is a rhetorical question, and generalizing, and uses evil as a loaded word.
So here's that same self talk with the thinking errors removed: I make more mistakes than I want. I want to do better. Sometimes things I'm involved in turn out in a way I don't like. I don't like how the world is. Some people do despicable, short-sighted things.
See the difference?
2. Healthy coping skills. When you are stressed out, how do you cope? Making a list of your coping skills can be a good first step. In my twenties that list was some art, some gardening, some listening to music or reading, some meditation, but more overworking, and the number one coping mechanism was smoking pot all the time. Turns out that was a really poorly built tool box for me.
3. If you don't trust yourself, trust someone else. Think of someone in your life, who you have given some level of love and trust, and who loves you in return. Do you trust them enough to believe that that they are not deluded when they see value in you and love you? Take their implied word for it that you are worth it.
4. Regulate your depressing stuff intake. If reading about politics or environmental issues is really depressing and you often feel helpless or disempowered as a result, don't just intake that. Mix up your intake with things that are fun, joyful, silly, creative. If the people you see in your life are depressing, work at cultivating less depressing environs. For example: for me, riding the bus vs bicycling usually has bicycling winning out, because riding the bus is about 70% downer and frustration.
If you have intentionally or unintentionally surrounded yourself with cynics who tend to point out the worst and are sarcastic and biting (or if you are that person), you may want to regulate that intake as well- too much can be poisonous.
5.
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03-19-2012, 09:08 PM
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I'm Deplorable.
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Re: When Art Feels Futile
The thing about art, for an artist is, just do it, It's not for you to see the benefit it may have for everyone else. You might create a painting that expresses the futility of living, the inequality of life, and the eternal striving for something better, and I could look at it and just see a naked woman. You put into the art and everyone else gets something out of it, and if it doesn't always match, thats still OK, the expression and the preceving are what matter, the content is going to be fluid and change with each viewer.
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03-19-2012, 09:30 PM
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I'm Deplorable.
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Re: When Art Feels Futile
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo
What's the point?
I just feel a lot of crushing disappointment lately. Fuck.
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The point is that there are people who care about you and that you care about. There aren't many people that someone doesn't care about, but I know of one. - There was a young man staying in a homeless shelter and an older man came in asking if someone would like to earn some money doing odd jobs, the young man said OK and went with the older man to his home. He did the odd jobs got paid $30.00 and was offered that he could sleep on the couch instead of the shelter, he said OK. Next day, back at the shelter, the money was gone, he went to the mans house, confronted him and in the struggle stabbed and killed the older man with a knife, put the body in the basement and took off in the car. 2 weeks later in another state the young man in the car was in a wreck, and the police were tracking down the license number. That is when they found thwe body in the basement, no-one had missed the older man or went looking for him. The story is just a bit depressing, an old man that no-one missed, and a young man that the police didn't think would see his 18th birthday. 2 lives wasted over $30.00, I'm sure you have more to offer than that. I still feel sad thinking about that young man.
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