Book of the Month Club - Page 3

ceptimus · #51 02-21-2009, 08:15 AM

I will download Candide and load it onto my Sony Reader. Anyone else with a similar gadget (that's you, vm) should do likewise.

And we can start discussing the first ten chapters on March 1st.

Crumb · #52 02-21-2009, 11:58 AM

Ok, March 1st. :pleased:

SharonDee · #53 02-26-2009, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceptimus

I will download Candide and load it onto my Sony Reader. Anyone else with a similar gadget (that's you, vm) should do likewise.

And we can start discussing the first ten chapters on March 1st.

Ten chapters, got it. My Kindle and I will meet you there.

viscousmemories · #54 02-28-2009, 02:34 PM

Okay, cep hooked me up with the Reader version so I'll try to play.

Between work and school, more reading is just what I need. :brooding:

ceptimus · #55 02-28-2009, 06:05 PM

It's quite a short book, vm. You can read the first ten chapters in around an hour. :yup:

SharonDee · #56 02-28-2009, 06:30 PM

It took me longer to get through those ten because ... well, there are other books that kept me more interested. But ... this is supposed to be a comedy?

I suppose we can debate that during our discussion, though. :nod:

viscousmemories · #57 02-28-2009, 06:47 PM

Oh I know cep, I read it years ago. I'm just a slow reading procrastinating lazy attention-span disabled freak.

wildernesse · #58 03-01-2009, 01:29 AM

I would like to join! I will try to keep up, but we'll have to see how it goes with my attention span. I have dug out our copy of Candide, and I'll try to get through the first section tonight and think about it.

SharonDee · #59 03-01-2009, 01:38 AM

Okay, so the discussion begins on March 1st. (Tomorrow.) Will this discussion take place in this thread, another thread, or chat?

Who's driving this bus, anyway?

ceptimus · #60 03-01-2009, 06:52 AM

I assumed we would post our discussion in this thread. :shrug:

ceptimus · #61 03-01-2009, 03:21 PM

Okay... I'll break the ice.

It's the first time I've read Candide, and I've not read it all yet - just the first ten chapters.

I found it fairly interesting so far. Given that the book was written two hundred and fifty years ago, and has been translated from French, I found the style to be surprisingly modern.

I'd heard about Pangloss and his, "Everything is for the best" philosophy but I didn't know who had invented him and in what context, so I was pleased to find him in Candide. It seems (from the chapters I've read so far - maybe there will be a twist later) that the whole book is aimed at ridiculing such Panglossian optimism.

I think the book is also a satire on adventure novels - the plot is so fast-moving as to be ridiculous. The succession of horrific events that befall the heroes are described in such a matter-of-fact succinct way that it is quite funny at times; it's a similar reaction I get to watching Tarantino movies - the violence is so over-the-top that it becomes comic rather than disturbing.

The book seems to be attacking organised religion in general. I would think this must have been quite a brave thing to do at the time, given the power and influence of the religious authorities, and especially the catholic church of France.

I assume that there are quite a few 'jokes' in the text - references and allusions to the politics and newsworthy events of the time. I confess, I can't be bothered to read up on these, so any such references have passed clean over my head. When I was forced to study Shakespeare at school, his 'jokes' were always painstakingly analysed and explained - it never made them funny.

The introduction to the version of the book I have (on my Sony Reader) mentions that Voltaire was supposed to have written Candide in just three days! Even though it's a short book, I can't believe it was written as quickly as that - the figure must be either exaggerated or invented.

freemonkey · #62 03-01-2009, 06:59 PM

The version I'm reading has helpful footnotes and brief explanations of some of the references.

At the introduction of Pangloss' doctrine of "best ends" I couldn't help thinking of Ray Comfort's banana-fits-human-hand-because-God-made-it-that-way theory.

Quote:

"It is demonstrable," said he, "that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end. Observe, for instance, the nose is formed for spectacles, therefore we wear spectacles. The legs are visibly designed for stockings, accordingly we wear stockings. Stones were made to be hewn and to construct castles, therefore My Lord has a magnificent castle; for the greatest baron in the province ought to be the best lodged. Swine were intended to be eaten, therefore we eat pork all the year round: and they, who assert that everything is right, do not express themselves correctly; they should say that everything is best."

S.Vashti · #63 03-01-2009, 07:30 PM

What I found interesting was the fallaciousness of the "arguments" Pangloss used-as if simply saying something is the way it is, demonstrated that it must be that way. Now that Pangloss is hanged for having caused a natural calamity, no one will be able to retort with the natural, "Well, if it's demonstrable, demonstrate it, please."

I did not read the introduction, but if it is true Voltaire wrote this in three days, I'm very impressed. The spare text is surprisingly descriptive,and allows for the pointed barbs flying every which way. To have the ability to write so pithily without editing out, is really an expert display.

So far, Candide has been met his love, forced from his home, lost his love, cured his teacher and watched him die, been near to death himself twice, once at the hand of the military, once at the hand of the church.

I thought originally that the book would be anti-Christian, but so far, the book seems mostly anti-Catholic, with a bit of anti-Protestant thrown in.

The author's rather droll tactfulness in forbearing to describe what Candide was doused with by the preacher's wife, coupled with genteel descriptions of Pangloss's "experimental natural philosophy" with the chambermaid are charming to me.

freemonkey · #64 03-01-2009, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Porter

So far, Candide has been met his love, forced from his home, lost his love, cured his teacher and watched him die, been near to death himself twice, once at the hand of the military, once at the hand of the church.

He has also killed at least twice and been talked out of rescuing his benefactor, James.

S.Vashti · #65 03-01-2009, 08:11 PM

Yes, by the end of Chapter 10, I am expecting that he's concluded that killing is all for the best.

SharonDee · #66 03-02-2009, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceptimus

I think the book is also a satire on adventure novels - the plot is so fast-moving as to be ridiculous. The succession of horrific events that befall the heroes are described in such a matter-of-fact succinct way that it is quite funny at times ...

Ah, okay. I was perplexed at the speed--and narrative distance--with which these events were depicted. Looking at it from that point of view makes more sense.

Crumb · #67 03-02-2009, 01:36 AM

It seems like a hero tale, but backwards. Instead of wandering around performing great deeds, Candide wanders around from tragedy to tragedy and doesn't seem to have much control of his own life.

The speed of the narrative is a little odd to me, So much has happen in so few pages that I can hardly keep track of it all.

It seems that Candide has rid himself of the notion that he is living in the best of all possible worlds.

wildernesse · #68 03-02-2009, 04:48 AM

My book has a few (very few) notes in it. It did point out that the two warring factions, Bulgars and Avars, are the Prussians and French. The Seven Years' War was happening during the time of the writing. The second note states that the earthquake chapter was "inspired" by the Lisbon earthquake of 1755.

I wondered if anyone knew what is considered the best English translation of Candide is?

Also, my copy is one that RA got from a used bookstore in Athens, and there are some handwritten notes that came with it. The first one is written in the margins on the page where Pangloss and Candide are arrested in Lisbon. It underlines the charges, and states "crime: freedom of expression." The only other note written, so far, is after the heading of Ch. 10--"To Argentina." For some reason, I find these notes quite hilarious.

The intro to my book, written by Andre Maurois, states that Voltaire wrote Candide to ridicule the optimism of Leibniz. A statement that doesn't mean anything to me, but Leibniz has a wiki page.

For most of what we've read, Candide has not been much of an actor. Things happen TO him. The few things that he has done of his own accord are: taken a walk on his own as a soldier, begged for help for Pangloss from the Anabaptist, and killed the Inquisitor. I don't count his first killing, because it was happenstance-ish, but he made a decision to kill the 2nd.

ChuckF · #69 03-02-2009, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildernesse

I wondered if anyone knew what is considered the best English translation of Candide is?

I don't know if there is one. Candide is really a very easy work to read and to translate into English. It is standard reading for Intro to French Lit/3rd year French. The simple and direct phrases in English accurately reflect the French stylistics, and there isn't much multi-layered wordplay that isn't translatable. At least I don't think there is.

There are a few little problems for the very attentive translator such as I strive to be. For example, the French word for "Bulgar" is the same as the word for "Bulgarian," and the two are different things in English, so which should one choose? Personally, I would go with "Bulgar" because "Bulgarian" has become all tied up with the political entity of Bulgaria, which did not exist during Voltaire's lifetime. There are some other reasons that I'm too tired to get into here. (I read Candide in an undergrad French class and wrote a silly little paper about Voltaire's conception of Eastern Europe because I had read and was taken with a book called Inventing Eastern Europe by Larry Wolff. The Bulgar thing has something to do with it.) But other than that, no great challenges.

Anyway, just about any translation you read will be fine in terms of rendering the text, though well-annotated ones probably enrich the reading. At some point Candide visits a people called the Oreillons. A well-annotated text would tell you than oreillon can refer to a part of the ear, and oreillons means the mumps. I don't know if that would help at all. It would also point out when Voltaire puts real people in the text, which probably would help more.

Sock Puppet · #70 03-02-2009, 03:22 PM

The Gutenberg online version previously posted seems to be the same version I read back in high school (y'know, back when Voltaire was alive -- he didn't answer my fan mail, though). At least, the footnotes appear to be the same.

I think I actually found it funnier the first time I read it. Still, I've been enjoying it. Candide is definitely a "serendipitous" hero, in that he has stuff happen to him rather than causing much to happen through his own volition. Of course, calling what happens to him "serendipity" is absurd, but that's the category the story belongs in.

I wonder about the use of the El Dorado legend. As far as I know, the legends just described all the fabulous wealth it contained, with streets of gold, buildings of precious gems, etc. Was Voltaire's take on it unique? That is, it's a paradise not because of its riches, but because its people place no value on wealth, and they would be equally happy if their streets were paved with slate rather than gold.