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  #101  
Old 12-17-2012, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

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Originally Posted by Gonzo View Post
No, no. I appreciate your input, but that comparison is still way off. It's like comparing a bicycle to a car, you know?

yeah a crazy person might run you over in their car or they might pick up their bike and smash you repeatedly with it until you die. you never know with crazy people.

at least i've consistently compared crazy people to crazy people. well not really, but you know?
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  #102  
Old 12-17-2012, 01:51 PM
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Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

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Originally Posted by Kashmir View Post
For those who understand that Kashmir is certain to be saying something gleefully idiotic, but can't be bothered to read the link and figure out, this time, just how fucking stupid it is: List including "spree" serial killers, and excluding most types of mass-event killings: school massacres, workplace killings, and mass domestic homicides.
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  #103  
Old 12-17-2012, 02:03 PM
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Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kashmir View Post
For those who understand that Kashmir is certain to be saying something gleefully idiotic, but can't be bothered to read the link and figure out, this time, just how fucking stupid it is: List including "spree" serial killers, and excluding most types of mass-event killings: school massacres, workplace killings, and mass domestic homicides.

so what's the difference? style and presentation?
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  #104  
Old 12-17-2012, 02:14 PM
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Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Oh good. The Jesus Thingy, thedoc, AML and Kashmir. Shitpoast frenzy.

Anyhow, my understanding is that America currently has between 250 million and 300 million firearms in public circulation. Is there an implementation of gun control that can make a difference, in light of this? I'm tempted to say yes, since it seems (to my unscientific recollection of various news reports) that a significant proportion of these mass killings are perpetrated with recently purchased guns, notwithstanding. And I'm generally sceptical of despair and of quietism. But I can't help thinking... that's a shitload of horses loose, to now be thinking of pushing the barn doors to, say, 20 degrees shy of wide open.
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  #105  
Old 12-17-2012, 02:18 PM
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Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Neil Macdonald: Death and delusion in a nation of assault rifles - World - CBC News

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Yet another "national discussion" about guns is under way here, and it's so anti-rational, so politically cowardly, so …unbearably stupid that you have to wonder how a nation that has enlightened the world in so many other ways could wallow in this kind of delusion...

Everywhere, there is talk about "the grieving process," with pious asides thrown in about the need to "go home and hug your children," or pray.

As if that is going to accomplish anything.
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  #106  
Old 12-17-2012, 02:21 PM
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Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

It's certainly not impossible to kill 27 people in the space of a few minutes with an axe or a knife, but you've got to be really determined.

And really fast on your feet.
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  #107  
Old 12-17-2012, 02:44 PM
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Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Oh god, please, don't let's encourage the eager discussion of how in Year 457 of the Third Age in the land of Gor, one of Conan's generals defeated an entire army with a morningstar and two-headed axe, so gun control is irrational.
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  #108  
Old 12-17-2012, 03:01 PM
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Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Walmart has assault rifles on an endcap for 99.00. Not behind a counter or anything, just sitting in the main aisle
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  #109  
Old 12-17-2012, 03:11 PM
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Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

They interviewed a guy at the gun store I was at on Friday (see post on page 1). He said Saturday was their busiest day in 20 years. Highest sales day ever. People are doubly afraid Obama is going to ban guns so they're buying out the store's pre-ban items. High capacity magazines, AR-15 type rifles, hand guns, tatical gear, ammunition, MRE's, etc. .

Merry Christmas and a Hap-Hap-Happy Fucking New Year from crazy land.
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  #110  
Old 12-17-2012, 03:13 PM
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Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

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Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Walmart has assault rifles on an endcap for 99.00. Not behind a counter or anything, just sitting in the main aisle
Are you sure those aren't Air-soft rifles? They normally have bright orange ends to them so the police will know not to shoot the kid using it.

Look a the cool stuff you can get your kid's started on early at Walmart
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  #111  
Old 12-17-2012, 03:15 PM
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Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Possibly, they had air rifles stacked in the middle of the aisle that said "air rifle" on them. I suppose it could be another brand, but no orange or anything on it that I remember. I will check again..
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  #112  
Old 12-17-2012, 03:28 PM
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Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Then it was probably somthing like this

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Crosman-M4...Black/19866093

Scary looking but functionally not much different than the 40-50 year old design of the Crossman 760 I got when I was 10 years old. It's shorter so it probably is less accurate than my 33 year old pellet gun.

I'd never let my kid's own one because it looks too real. I'd be afraid of them getting shot by the police on accident.

It looks a lot like the rifle the guy used in CT. But those are in the $1000-$1500 range. You can get modified versions of .22cal rifles that look and feel like the big version but run $300-900. They look just like the larger version and shoot similar caliber bullets, but much lower gunpowder charge so they are closer in power to a pellet gun.

For comparison, .22lr on the left, .223 like the guy used in the shooting on the right



The .22 is much cheaper to shoot and functions the same so you can own both and learn to operate the larger version without spending as much shooting it. I know because my in-laws are probably out buying up this sort of shit right now.

I'm starting to think I need a concealed carry permit to go to the extended family christmas. Either that or hope Jesus protects us.
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  #113  
Old 12-17-2012, 03:31 PM
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Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

It's the white boys' training bra.
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  #114  
Old 12-17-2012, 03:47 PM
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Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Walmart now sells airsoft Mortar and hand grenades for the serious prepper kid training.

Black-Ops-Air-Soft-Mortar-Hammer

When I was a kid, the closest we got to prepperism was camping outside, freezing our asses off hunting, or fishing on a hot day. We had to learn to clean anything we shot, we had to help butcher chickens and cattle, and grow a garden and can food. But that wasn't because we were afraid the world was coming to an end. It was because we lived on a farm.

I doubt my parents would have bought us mortars and stun grenades from the kid's toy section of Walmart. Because they weren't fucking stupid parents.
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  #115  
Old 12-17-2012, 04:20 PM
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At my high school, in rural North Carolina, half the pick-up trucks in the student parking lot had gun racks -- and guns in them. But no one would have dreamed that somebody might have a reason for taking one into the school. Guns were for hunting.

And, of course, every male carried a knife at all times. It would have been ... weird ... not to. Once, during my senior year, the vice-principle walked into the classroom and said, "I need to cut some cord; could I borrow someone's knife?". Every male student -- myself included -- immediately reached into his pocket to haul out a knife.

I rather strongly suspect that that there are no guns on the campus today -- unless they have an armed security guard or two patrolling the halls, which, alas, is not out of the question. And I'm sure that knives of any kind are strictly forbidden too.

Remarkable how much things change, and how quickly.



On a similar note, when I was 12, I thought nothing of getting up at sunrise on a Summer's day and wandering for miles over hill and dale, not coming home until sundown. If my parents thought this was odd or alarming, they never let on. They knew perfectly well -- as did I -- that if I'd hurt myself, I had only to get to the nearest house. They'd have known exactly who I was and would have taken me in immediately and called my parents. Sometimes one of my sisters would accompany me, and sometimes one of them would wander off into the woods by herself for a time, though none of them was half so interested in wandering the woods and fields as I was.

I can scarcely even imagine any of my sisters giving any of my nieces or nephews such freedom to roam today -- and I don't blame them for it.



[To this day, I always have 2 knives on me at any given time -- one is part of a "Leatherman" tool, and the other is a lockblade. They're tools; it would never occur to me to think of them as weapons. I also carry a small flashlight on me at all times. It's not unusual for me to use 2 of these items -- or even all 3 of them -- on a given day.]
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  #116  
Old 12-17-2012, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

We had a skeet shooting team in my high school. They didn't bring their shotguns to school, but most cars and trucks were armed. Some kids hunted and trapped in the mornings then came to school directly from the field and/or went out right after school.

Everyone had a pocket knife.

Now, you can get in trouble sending a plastic knife or aspirin with your kid.

But we didn't have fake killings on computers and TVs (not blaming that, but it does desensitize). When I shot something as a kid, I had to watch it die and do something positive with it, like prep it for dinner. Much more circle of life type of thought process than gunning down digital army men on the Wii.

We're teaching the kids gun safety because you can't really learn that from video games.
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  #117  
Old 12-17-2012, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

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Originally Posted by Clutch Munny View Post
Oh god, please, don't let's encourage the eager discussion of how in Year 457 of the Third Age in the land of Gor, one of Conan's generals defeated an entire army with a morningstar and two-headed axe, so gun control is irrational.
No such discussion should be permitted unless and until proto-überGorden arrives to moderate it.
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  #118  
Old 12-17-2012, 07:35 PM
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Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

In Michigan, there's talk about making it easier to bring concealed weapons into public places like schools. Governor Snyder has indicated that he is "undecided" about whether or not he would sign such legislation.



Of course, we now know exactly how trustworthy he is when he claims to be "undecided" about controversial legislation.
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  #119  
Old 12-17-2012, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Open carry didn't help these guys . I'm not sure what they expect from CCW people.
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  #120  
Old 12-17-2012, 08:04 PM
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Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

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Originally Posted by Ari View Post
While often ignored more people are starting to talk about the main component in most mass murders, Men. Beyond mental illness it seems to be the one similarity that is so skewed to one side there's no way it can be ignored, unless some of these same men are in power. There seems to be a heavy genetic component to many mental illnesses that impacts XY worse or in a different way than XX. I do wonder if certain violent behavior should be classified separately from other mental illnesses, as there are plenty of non-violent women and men with mental illnesses and some people that get violent at the drop of a hat.
It's not just men. It's overwhelmingly middle class white men who commit mass murders, which seems to indicate that there's a big cultural factor to it. So much so, it's apparently so expected that the whole stupid public discourse tends to focus not on the obvious common factors, but on specific individual traits that set them apart. This one isn't quite exactly white, or this one was maybe diagnosed with a learning disorder, so pay lots and lots of attention to that instead.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say there's a sense of entitlement involved. Like, maybe, some whiny little shit feels like he's not getting the attention he deserves for whatever reason, so he takes out his violent tendencies in a way that's likely to get him the most possible attention. You don't murder a bunch of Kindergarteners because you hate Kindergarteners. You murder a bunch of Kindergarteners because you know it's going to get you a whole lot of attention, and because it makes the world, which you are very angry with, freak out. And it works.

So the dead murderer is not seeing the candlelight vigils and the massive outpourings of grief from all around the world, and the exciting 24 hour news coverage, and they don't see the big de facto holidays established in memory of their violence, or if they do, they're locked up and can't do it again; but other shitty, spoiled white boys who are also extremely angry with the world do.

So the thing is, it's not just about not focusing on the murderer in cases like that, but also on not saturating the media and national attention on the murders.

It is totally understandable, like I said, for people to get all wrapped up in it and take it personally, even when it isn't, in large part because mass murders like this one tend to happen to people who generally consider themselves pretty safe. (That's why people say things like this don't happen in communities like this--meaning white middle class suburbs--despite the fact that that's overwhelmingly exactly where they happen.)

Don't you imagine that maybe some whiny little asshole who does something like this relishes the idea of making so many people they hate feel such fear and horror?
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  #121  
Old 12-17-2012, 08:20 PM
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Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

What do you want to bet that there are more middle class white men afraid of Obama taking away their guns or ability to buy certain types of guns (or just plain-ol' black him) than of their kids getting gunned down at school, the mall, etc.
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  #122  
Old 12-17-2012, 08:39 PM
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Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

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I'm going to go out on a limb and say there's a sense of entitlement involved.
Oh certainly! In cases of murder suicide I think often the suicide is decided first and once the person has convinced themselves they should die, they feel entitled to make that choice for 'lesser' human beings. Besides just getting revenge or 'setting things straight' I expect they sometimes come to the conclusion that they are doing the people they are killing a favor.

While I don't think modern culture supports it anymore than previous cultures, it certainly doesn't help when it encourages everything leading up to the action and then shrugs when questioned.
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  #123  
Old 12-17-2012, 08:51 PM
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What do you want to bet that there are more middle class white men afraid of Obama taking away their guns or ability to buy certain types of guns (or just plain-ol' black him) than of their kids getting gunned down at school, the mall, etc.
I think that's a given. Even the most paranoid person must be aware that in a nation the size of ours, the odds that your kid is going to be gunned down are infinitesimal.

But for a shockingly-large percentage of the U.S. population, it is more or less literally an article of faith that Obama is out to get their guns, and that he will use any excuse to do so.
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  #124  
Old 12-17-2012, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch Munny View Post
Oh god, please, don't let's encourage the eager discussion of how in Year 457 of the Third Age in the land of Gor, one of Conan's generals defeated an entire army with a morningstar and two-headed axe, so gun control is irrational.
No such discussion should be permitted unless and until proto-überGorden arrives to moderate it.
HARDY HAR. The land of Gor is FICTIONAL. The Conan however is rumored to have existed; I wasn't in the area at the time. The people of Búri certainly had a strong war culture. I never met any of his generals; this could be a reference to the commander of the Black Dragon elite guard Pallantides, but more likely the Poitainian general Prospero, who served Conan while he briefly reigned as King of Aquilonia. AND YES I KNOW people say Aquilonia did not exist. WHATEVS. The Romans didn't know the Cimbri or the Teutoni existed until they started fucking their shit up; the west didn't know of Genghis Khan's general Subutai until he cut a swath through the Kievan Rus. Plenty of kingdoms were ground to dust and lost to the historical record.

ANYWAY. Here's the dealio, straight from a very cut and ripped immortal warrior. Please let me know if you are confused by my URBAN LINGO, I am learning how to be more street, I've been watching a lot of reruns of The Jersey Shore.

The issue is range and power. One could conceivably kill lots of people with melee weapons in this modern age, but there is much greater limit.

It's just a argument for the dumbs. There's a way to reduce the number of deads when a person gets to the point inside their head that the way to solve the problem is to kill lots of other people and themselves. Make them do more work. Guns are designed to make killing people easy. Close up. Or at a distance. Make guns harder to get.

When people start arguing about the guy in China who killed a bunch of kids with a machete- sure. There are other ways to kill lots of people. But it is harder. Slower. Less likely to work. And the guy in China couldn't kill teachers through closed doors with his machete. Anders Breivik with a machete couldn't go to an island camp for teens in Norway and kill 76. Just not possible.

Help people struggling with the demons of their minds, and you solve a lot of this. You can't always. But in a land of disconnected people who feel powerless in their daily lives and are emotionally stunted, mental illness can be dangerous. Too many stories and fantasies in this country are about violent revenge as problem solving. It is the fantasy of the teenage boy mind.

Now this immortal warrior is depressed, and is going to the gym.
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  #125  
Old 12-17-2012, 09:22 PM
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Waluigi Waluigi is offline
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Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea View Post
I'm going to go out on a limb and say there's a sense of entitlement involved. Like, maybe, some whiny little shit feels like he's not getting the attention he deserves for whatever reason, so he takes out his violent tendencies in a way that's likely to get him the most possible attention.
I get what you're saying, but I think you might be oversimplifying it. Being spoiled and angry at the world may be a necessary condition of murdering a classroom full of kindergarteners, but it's not a sufficient condition.

Something really, really wrong has to be going on in your brain to do what he did.

I get mad at my wife sometimes, but I'm not going to dismember her and hide her in the freezer. There's something in my brain that knows such things are very very wrong, and whatever that piece is was missing from his brain.

Whatever that thing is, it's the difference between having a violent fantasy and actually carrying it out. Thankfully, the overwhelming majority of socially awkward middle class boys have it, but for the ones that don't, we get the unexplainable.
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