More blithe racism

[ChuckF]

Conservative Think Tank Apologizes For Posting Image of Obama Eating KFC In Sex Chains

I am genuinely sorry my inclusion of the photo along with my blog post has caused controversy for the John Locke Foundation. If it has offended anyone, I sincerely regret that. That was certainly not my intention. It was meant to illustrate Obama's southern political strategy, nothing more.

Nothing more!

[LadyShea]

illustrate Obama's southern political strategy

Wait what? Could you go through the symbolism for me there, Champ, and how it correlates to strategies?

[Ensign Steve]

If the strategy is to tour the South having BDSM parties catered by KFC, he's got my vote!

[seebs]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Wait what? Could you go through the symbolism for me there, Champ, and how it correlates to strategies?

Apparently something to do with all those sex-chained gays.

[Vivisectus]

I am genuinely sorry my inclusion of the photo along with my blog post has caused controversy

LOL that is like saying "I am sorry you got upset when I called you a fucktarded chicken-fucking shitkicker and a festering boil on the inner ring of Satans rectum".

No regret is expressed for the expression, nor is it retracted. It is merely regretted that someone had a reaction to it.

[Ensign Steve]

Yeah, that's how all their apologies are. "I'm sorry you were offended."

[Angakuk]

Would, "I'm sorry that what I said offended you because I totally did not mean to offend you" be any better? I ask because I have had occasion to use just that sort of apology. Because, you know, I do sometimes say things that offend people when I did not mean to give any offense.

[Ensign Steve]

I suppose it depends on the context. Did you try to understand why the person was offended and adjust your thinking and behavior to take into account a new perspective? Or did you decide that the person was probably offended for no good reason? People say and do offensive things all the time without realizing that they're being offensive. It's how they react to the news that shows how sincere the apology is.

Tangentally, I have found myself recently telling people, "I didn't mean to be rude," or "I didn't mean to ... " whatever it was I did, but without actually ever apologizing. I need to work on saying "I'm sorry for being rude" because who gives a shit what I meant to do, if I was rude I apologize.

[lisarea]

A fauxpology is when you "apologize" for hurting someone's feelings but admit any culpability. Everyone fucks up and accidentally offends someone sometimes, and you can legitimately say, "OMG I'm sorry, I didn't mean it that way, and I completely retract anything I said that sounded like that," or "I'm sorry. I never thought of it that way. I won't do that again."

The fauxpology is when you say, "I'm sorry that you were offended," and continue to defend what you said. That is actually more offensive than not apologizing, because you're effectively saying, "I am sorry that you are such a hypersensitive crybaby" or something.

A good rule of thumb is that if you should apologize for things you are actually sorry for.

[seebs]

I used to have a hell of a time with this on unintended things, because it was obviously dishonest to apologize for a thing not-intended, because you've got no intent there that you could regret.

[lisarea]

You can still genuinely regret having said it, and sincerely intend to avoid making that same mistake again.

"I am sorry. I didn't mean it to sound like that, and I am going to avoid [thing that caused misunderstanding] again." = OK

"I didn't mean it that way, but I am sorry if you were offended by it." = Not OK

[seebs]

Originally Posted by lisarea

You can still genuinely regret having said it, and sincerely intend to avoid making that same mistake again.

"I am sorry. I didn't mean it to sound like that, and I am going to avoid [thing that caused misunderstanding] again." = OK

"I didn't mean it that way, but I am sorry if you were offended by it." = Not OK

Yes, I have mostly gotten the hang of this.

There is Yet Another category, which is "I'm sorry that this hurts you but I have some really really compelling reason to do it anyway". Which is subtly distinct from insincere apologies, and often marked by attempts to mitigate or compensate for harm.

[Ymir's blood]

"I'm sorry you took offense at my apology."

[LadyShea]

"I'm sorry that this hurts you but I have some really really compelling reason to do it anyway"

That. There are times when whatever I am saying is hurtful, but I feel that saying it is important enough that the hurt is acceptable. I can be regretful that I hurt someone, but not regretful of what I actually said.

This happens mostly in close relationships, like "Mom, I love you, but you are saying/doing stuff that's severely problematic and we need to find a solution to that and can't do it without pointing out the problem"

Other times I say something dickheaded without thinking and I then apologize for being an unthinking dickhead.

[ChuckF]

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

LOL that is like saying "I am sorry you got upset when I called you a fucktarded chicken-fucking shitkicker and a festering boil on the inner ring of Satans rectum".

No regret is expressed for the expression, nor is it retracted. It is merely regretted that someone had a reaction to it.

And also that it caused trouble for the John Locke Foundation! The island is not going to like that.

My fave thing about these apologies from obviously horrible racists is how they are unfailingly like "oh I didn't even see the racism there, that is now not racist I am!" And how incredibly weak that is, like with the Re-nig lady, but they still feel like they should say it, because someone will believe them, maybe? And other horrible racists will, because they are also not even racist, really.

[LadyShea]

"oh I didn't even see the racism there, that is now not racist I am!"

It amazes me how often that happens. You wouldn't think whatever offensive thing was funny if you weren't a racist, asshat.

My other favorite is the weaselly "Bad things happened/were said" like there was no people doing or saying bad things, the things just autonomously happened or got said.

[Janet]

Originally Posted by ChuckF

My fave thing about these apologies from obviously horrible racists is how they are unfailingly like "oh I didn't even see the racism there, that is now not racist I am!" And how incredibly weak that is, like with the Re-nig lady, but they still feel like they should say it, because someone will believe them, maybe? And other horrible racists will, because they are also not even racist, really.

One of my favorite things about Samuel L. Jackson's appearance on the Colbert Report, which is unfailingly brilliant, was when Colbert pulled his " I don't see race" schtick and Jackson replied, "You have that luxury." It was such a perfect response that I think it always needs to be used in these situations.

[Ensign Steve]

Originally Posted by Janet

One of my favorite things about Samuel L. Jackson's appearance on the Colbert Report, which is unfailingly brilliant, was when Colbert pulled his " I don't see race" schtick and Jackson replied, "You have that luxury." It was such a perfect response that I think it always needs to be used in these situations.

There was a conversation on Facebook recently where a runner mentioned being one of only three black people at a race and how she'd like to see more of "my people" at events. Her white FB running friends just did not get it. Comments were like "why does color matter?", "we are all runners", and "your people? who are you, Moses?" etc.

I wanted to ask if they've even looked around at an event and noticed how few people of color are there? No, because why would they notice that?

Worst part was she apologized for offending anyone.

Oh, also! There was even the requisite comment about how naturally muscular and athletic black people are.

[lisarea]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

That. There are times when whatever I am saying is hurtful, but I feel that saying it is important enough that the hurt is acceptable. I can be regretful that I hurt someone, but not regretful of what I actually said.

This happens mostly in close relationships, like "Mom, I love you, but you are saying/doing stuff that's severely problematic and we need to find a solution to that and can't do it without pointing out the problem"

Oh, yeah, that happens, but not everything that has the word 'sorry' in it is an apology. Sorry can be used to express condolences or sympathy or whatever, too. If you're preemptively saying you're sorry for something, you're not apologizing for it. You're acknowledging that whatever you're going to do or say is going to have some negative effects on someone.

LOL, Wikipedia. I was just gonna look and find examples, but there's a Wikipedia page.

Non-apology apology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[lisarea]

OH GOD look at all of this racism.

Seriously, keep going. It. Gets. Worse.

The Talk: Nonblack Version by Rutherford P. Higginbotham or some shit like that.

So I was thinking it was weird that I'd never heard of that site until recently, but couldn't place where I'd heard it until I noticed the byline on some of the other articles there. That's right. That's the site that hired Jim Fucking Goad.

[seebs]

That link just gets page resets for me now.

[wildernesse]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

It amazes me how often that happens.You wouldn't think whatever offensive thing was funny if you weren't a racist, asshat.

That drives me wild, right there.

[seebs]

I don't know that I buy that. The joke generally isn't funny without awareness of the stereotype (although some are; you can tell because you can replace black/Iowan/Jew/whatever with the word "ethnic" and the joke stays funny), but awareness of stereotypes isn't necessarily racism.

It's not really a racial group, but I will point out that I know very few if any autistic people who do not find autism jokes funny and/or tell them. And it's culture, not race, but I knew a Vietnamese girl who used to repeat "How do Vietnamese women name their children? They toss the silverware down the stairs." And yes, her name was illustrative. (No clue how to romanize it.)

That said, I'm pretty sure it's a bad sign if you don't perceive the stereotyping. But you can think the joke is funny without being biased against the group in question.

[wildernesse]

It's not just about jokes, though. I've responded to email forwards or whatever the equivalent is on fb that aren't meant to be funny, and been met with the same thing: oh, I'm not talking about THAT, whether it be race or birtherism or any other thing that supposedly delegitimizes Obama or liberals at large. The only problem is that the message doesn't make sense with the offensive thing removed. It's not a message at all, except when illustrated by the offensive thing.

[Angakuk]

I love preacher jokes.