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03-22-2012, 08:50 PM
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liar in wolf's clothing
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
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Re: More blithe racism
Conservative Think Tank Apologizes For Posting Image of Obama Eating KFC In Sex Chains
Quote:
I am genuinely sorry my inclusion of the photo along with my blog post has caused controversy for the John Locke Foundation. If it has offended anyone, I sincerely regret that. That was certainly not my intention. It was meant to illustrate Obama's southern political strategy, nothing more.
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Nothing more!
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03-22-2012, 08:52 PM
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I said it, so I feel it, dick
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Here
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Re: More blithe racism
Quote:
illustrate Obama's southern political strategy
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Wait what? Could you go through the symbolism for me there, Champ, and how it correlates to strategies?
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03-22-2012, 09:05 PM
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California Sober
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Silicon Valley
Gender: Bender
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Re: More blithe racism
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03-22-2012, 09:16 PM
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God Made Me A Skeptic
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Minnesota
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Re: More blithe racism
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea
Quote:
illustrate Obama's southern political strategy
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Wait what? Could you go through the symbolism for me there, Champ, and how it correlates to strategies?
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Apparently something to do with all those sex-chained gays.
__________________
Hear me / and if I close my mind in fear / please pry it open
See me / and if my face becomes sincere / beware
Hold me / and when I start to come undone / stitch me together
Save me / and when you see me strut / remind me of what left this outlaw torn
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03-22-2012, 09:33 PM
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Astroid the Foine Loine between a Poirate and a Farrrmer
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Gender: Male
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Re: More blithe racism
Quote:
I am genuinely sorry my inclusion of the photo along with my blog post has caused controversy
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LOL that is like saying "I am sorry you got upset when I called you a fucktarded chicken-fucking shitkicker and a festering boil on the inner ring of Satans rectum".
No regret is expressed for the expression, nor is it retracted. It is merely regretted that someone had a reaction to it.
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03-23-2012, 01:28 AM
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California Sober
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Silicon Valley
Gender: Bender
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Re: More blithe racism
Yeah, that's how all their apologies are. "I'm sorry you were offended."
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03-23-2012, 01:36 AM
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NeoTillichian Hierophant & Partisan Hack
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Iowa
Gender: Male
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Re: More blithe racism
Would, "I'm sorry that what I said offended you because I totally did not mean to offend you" be any better? I ask because I have had occasion to use just that sort of apology. Because, you know, I do sometimes say things that offend people when I did not mean to give any offense.
__________________
Old Pain In The Ass says: I am on a mission from God to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable; to bring faith to the doubtful and doubt to the faithful.
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03-23-2012, 01:42 AM
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California Sober
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Silicon Valley
Gender: Bender
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Re: More blithe racism
I suppose it depends on the context. Did you try to understand why the person was offended and adjust your thinking and behavior to take into account a new perspective? Or did you decide that the person was probably offended for no good reason? People say and do offensive things all the time without realizing that they're being offensive. It's how they react to the news that shows how sincere the apology is.
Tangentally, I have found myself recently telling people, "I didn't mean to be rude," or "I didn't mean to ... " whatever it was I did, but without actually ever apologizing. I need to work on saying "I'm sorry for being rude" because who gives a shit what I meant to do, if I was rude I apologize.
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03-23-2012, 01:45 AM
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Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
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Re: More blithe racism
A fauxpology is when you "apologize" for hurting someone's feelings but admit any culpability. Everyone fucks up and accidentally offends someone sometimes, and you can legitimately say, "OMG I'm sorry, I didn't mean it that way, and I completely retract anything I said that sounded like that," or "I'm sorry. I never thought of it that way. I won't do that again."
The fauxpology is when you say, "I'm sorry that you were offended," and continue to defend what you said. That is actually more offensive than not apologizing, because you're effectively saying, "I am sorry that you are such a hypersensitive crybaby" or something.
A good rule of thumb is that if you should apologize for things you are actually sorry for.
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03-23-2012, 03:25 AM
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God Made Me A Skeptic
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Minnesota
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Re: More blithe racism
I used to have a hell of a time with this on unintended things, because it was obviously dishonest to apologize for a thing not-intended, because you've got no intent there that you could regret.
__________________
Hear me / and if I close my mind in fear / please pry it open
See me / and if my face becomes sincere / beware
Hold me / and when I start to come undone / stitch me together
Save me / and when you see me strut / remind me of what left this outlaw torn
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03-23-2012, 03:35 AM
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Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
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Re: More blithe racism
You can still genuinely regret having said it, and sincerely intend to avoid making that same mistake again.
"I am sorry. I didn't mean it to sound like that, and I am going to avoid [thing that caused misunderstanding] again." = OK
"I didn't mean it that way, but I am sorry if you were offended by it." = Not OK
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03-23-2012, 03:46 AM
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God Made Me A Skeptic
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Minnesota
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Re: More blithe racism
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea
You can still genuinely regret having said it, and sincerely intend to avoid making that same mistake again.
"I am sorry. I didn't mean it to sound like that, and I am going to avoid [thing that caused misunderstanding] again." = OK
"I didn't mean it that way, but I am sorry if you were offended by it." = Not OK
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Yes, I have mostly gotten the hang of this.
There is Yet Another category, which is "I'm sorry that this hurts you but I have some really really compelling reason to do it anyway". Which is subtly distinct from insincere apologies, and often marked by attempts to mitigate or compensate for harm.
__________________
Hear me / and if I close my mind in fear / please pry it open
See me / and if my face becomes sincere / beware
Hold me / and when I start to come undone / stitch me together
Save me / and when you see me strut / remind me of what left this outlaw torn
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03-23-2012, 05:03 AM
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Coffin Creep
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The nightmare realm
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Re: More blithe racism
"I'm sorry you took offense at my apology."
__________________
Much of MADNESS, and more of SIN, and HORROR the soul of the plot.
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03-23-2012, 01:05 PM
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I said it, so I feel it, dick
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Here
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Re: More blithe racism
Quote:
"I'm sorry that this hurts you but I have some really really compelling reason to do it anyway"
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That. There are times when whatever I am saying is hurtful, but I feel that saying it is important enough that the hurt is acceptable. I can be regretful that I hurt someone, but not regretful of what I actually said.
This happens mostly in close relationships, like "Mom, I love you, but you are saying/doing stuff that's severely problematic and we need to find a solution to that and can't do it without pointing out the problem"
Other times I say something dickheaded without thinking and I then apologize for being an unthinking dickhead.
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03-23-2012, 01:16 PM
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liar in wolf's clothing
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
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Re: More blithe racism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus
Quote:
I am genuinely sorry my inclusion of the photo along with my blog post has caused controversy
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LOL that is like saying "I am sorry you got upset when I called you a fucktarded chicken-fucking shitkicker and a festering boil on the inner ring of Satans rectum".
No regret is expressed for the expression, nor is it retracted. It is merely regretted that someone had a reaction to it.
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And also that it caused trouble for the John Locke Foundation! The island is not going to like that.
My fave thing about these apologies from obviously horrible racists is how they are unfailingly like "oh I didn't even see the racism there, that is now not racist I am!" And how incredibly weak that is, like with the Re-nig lady, but they still feel like they should say it, because someone will believe them, maybe? And other horrible racists will, because they are also not even racist, really.
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03-23-2012, 01:28 PM
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I said it, so I feel it, dick
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Here
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Re: More blithe racism
Quote:
"oh I didn't even see the racism there, that is now not racist I am!"
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It amazes me how often that happens. You wouldn't think whatever offensive thing was funny if you weren't a racist, asshat.
My other favorite is the weaselly "Bad things happened/were said" like there was no people doing or saying bad things, the things just autonomously happened or got said.
Last edited by LadyShea; 03-23-2012 at 02:38 PM.
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03-23-2012, 03:25 PM
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Bizarre unknowable space alien
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Flint, MI
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Re: More blithe racism
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF
My fave thing about these apologies from obviously horrible racists is how they are unfailingly like "oh I didn't even see the racism there, that is now not racist I am!" And how incredibly weak that is, like with the Re-nig lady, but they still feel like they should say it, because someone will believe them, maybe? And other horrible racists will, because they are also not even racist, really.
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One of my favorite things about Samuel L. Jackson's appearance on the Colbert Report, which is unfailingly brilliant, was when Colbert pulled his " I don't see race" schtick and Jackson replied, "You have that luxury." It was such a perfect response that I think it always needs to be used in these situations.
__________________
"freedom to differ is not limited to things that do not matter much. That would be a mere shadow of freedom. The test of its substance is the right to differ as to things that touch the heart of the existing order."
- Justice Robert Jackson, West Virginia State Board of Ed. v. Barnette
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03-23-2012, 04:39 PM
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California Sober
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Silicon Valley
Gender: Bender
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Re: More blithe racism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janet
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF
My fave thing about these apologies from obviously horrible racists is how they are unfailingly like "oh I didn't even see the racism there, that is now not racist I am!" And how incredibly weak that is, like with the Re-nig lady, but they still feel like they should say it, because someone will believe them, maybe? And other horrible racists will, because they are also not even racist, really.
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One of my favorite things about Samuel L. Jackson's appearance on the Colbert Report, which is unfailingly brilliant, was when Colbert pulled his " I don't see race" schtick and Jackson replied, "You have that luxury." It was such a perfect response that I think it always needs to be used in these situations.
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There was a conversation on Facebook recently where a runner mentioned being one of only three black people at a race and how she'd like to see more of "my people" at events. Her white FB running friends just did not get it. Comments were like "why does color matter?", "we are all runners", and "your people? who are you, Moses?" etc.
I wanted to ask if they've even looked around at an event and noticed how few people of color are there? No, because why would they notice that?
Worst part was she apologized for offending anyone.
Oh, also! There was even the requisite comment about how naturally muscular and athletic black people are.
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03-23-2012, 04:57 PM
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Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
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Re: More blithe racism
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea
Quote:
"I'm sorry that this hurts you but I have some really really compelling reason to do it anyway"
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That. There are times when whatever I am saying is hurtful, but I feel that saying it is important enough that the hurt is acceptable. I can be regretful that I hurt someone, but not regretful of what I actually said.
This happens mostly in close relationships, like "Mom, I love you, but you are saying/doing stuff that's severely problematic and we need to find a solution to that and can't do it without pointing out the problem"
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Oh, yeah, that happens, but not everything that has the word 'sorry' in it is an apology. Sorry can be used to express condolences or sympathy or whatever, too. If you're preemptively saying you're sorry for something, you're not apologizing for it. You're acknowledging that whatever you're going to do or say is going to have some negative effects on someone.
LOL, Wikipedia. I was just gonna look and find examples, but there's a Wikipedia page.
Non-apology apology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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04-07-2012, 12:37 AM
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Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
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Re: More blithe racism
OH GOD look at all of this racism.
Seriously, keep going. It. Gets. Worse.
The Talk: Nonblack Version by Rutherford P. Higginbotham or some shit like that.
So I was thinking it was weird that I'd never heard of that site until recently, but couldn't place where I'd heard it until I noticed the byline on some of the other articles there. That's right. That's the site that hired Jim Fucking Goad.
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04-07-2012, 03:02 AM
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God Made Me A Skeptic
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Minnesota
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Re: More blithe racism
That link just gets page resets for me now.
__________________
Hear me / and if I close my mind in fear / please pry it open
See me / and if my face becomes sincere / beware
Hold me / and when I start to come undone / stitch me together
Save me / and when you see me strut / remind me of what left this outlaw torn
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04-07-2012, 05:29 PM
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The cat that will listen
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Valley of the Sun
Gender: Female
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Re: More blithe racism
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea
Quote:
"oh I didn't even see the racism there, that is now not racist I am!"
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It amazes me how often that happens. You wouldn't think whatever offensive thing was funny if you weren't a racist, asshat.
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That drives me wild, right there.
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04-07-2012, 05:44 PM
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God Made Me A Skeptic
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Minnesota
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Re: More blithe racism
I don't know that I buy that. The joke generally isn't funny without awareness of the stereotype (although some are; you can tell because you can replace black/Iowan/Jew/whatever with the word "ethnic" and the joke stays funny), but awareness of stereotypes isn't necessarily racism.
It's not really a racial group, but I will point out that I know very few if any autistic people who do not find autism jokes funny and/or tell them. And it's culture, not race, but I knew a Vietnamese girl who used to repeat "How do Vietnamese women name their children? They toss the silverware down the stairs." And yes, her name was illustrative. (No clue how to romanize it.)
That said, I'm pretty sure it's a bad sign if you don't perceive the stereotyping. But you can think the joke is funny without being biased against the group in question.
__________________
Hear me / and if I close my mind in fear / please pry it open
See me / and if my face becomes sincere / beware
Hold me / and when I start to come undone / stitch me together
Save me / and when you see me strut / remind me of what left this outlaw torn
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04-07-2012, 05:54 PM
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The cat that will listen
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Valley of the Sun
Gender: Female
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Re: More blithe racism
It's not just about jokes, though. I've responded to email forwards or whatever the equivalent is on fb that aren't meant to be funny, and been met with the same thing: oh, I'm not talking about THAT, whether it be race or birtherism or any other thing that supposedly delegitimizes Obama or liberals at large. The only problem is that the message doesn't make sense with the offensive thing removed. It's not a message at all, except when illustrated by the offensive thing.
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04-08-2012, 05:18 AM
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NeoTillichian Hierophant & Partisan Hack
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Iowa
Gender: Male
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Re: More blithe racism
I love preacher jokes.
__________________
Old Pain In The Ass says: I am on a mission from God to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable; to bring faith to the doubtful and doubt to the faithful.
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