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Old 10-09-2011, 09:48 PM
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News Cairo riots

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At least 19 people have been killed and dozens more injured in riots that erupted in Cairo when Coptic Christians protested against the recent destruction of a church, health ministry officials say.

The Copts were demonstrating outside the state television building in central Cairo on Sunday when they clashed with locals.

Military vehicles were set on fire and thick black smoke rose along the Nile outside the state television building, the state-run station reported.

...

Al Jazeera's Rawya Rageh, reporting from Cairo, said "utter chaos" prevailed in the centre of the capital.

Rageh said: "It was supposed to be a peaceful protest, demanding that Coptic rights should be fulfilled. But it soon escalated into violence, with people on balconies pelting the demonstrators with stones, clearly disagreeing with the cause of the Coptic demonstrators."

The Christian protesters said their demonstration began as a peaceful attempt to sit in at the television building. But then, they said they came under attack by thugs in plainclothes who rained stones down on them and fired pellets.

"The protest was peaceful. We wanted to hold a sit-in, as usual," Essam Khalili, a protester wearing a white shirt with a cross drawn on it, said.

"Thugs attacked us and a military vehicle jumped over a sidewalk and ran over at least 10 people. I saw them."

Wael Roufail, another protester, corroborated the account.

"I saw the vehicle running over the protesters. Then they opened fired at us," he said.

Khalili said protesters set fire to army vehicles when they saw them hitting the protesters.

Television footage of the riots showed some of the Coptic protesters attacking a soldier, while a priest tried to protect him. One soldier collapsed in tears as ambulances rushed to the scene to take away the injured.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/mi...853144870.html
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  #2  
Old 10-09-2011, 10:05 PM
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Default Re: Cairo riots

I was only recently aware of how many Coptic Christians there still were in Egypt, but I kinda began wondering when something would happen regarding them after Mubarak got out.

The impression I got was that attacks on Copts were more tolerated than encouraged by Mubarak, and so the new government was probably going to have to do something about it.
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Old 10-09-2011, 10:45 PM
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Default Re: Cairo riots

I think 10% is a low estimate. Anyway, they live in certain areas, so locally the numbers are higher. Certainly in areas of Cairo and Alexandria.

This whole thing sounds exactly like the way the pro-democracy demonstrators were attacked when Mubarak was still in power. This was the regime attacking, not a Muslim mob or anything like that.
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Old 10-09-2011, 11:00 PM
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Default Re: Cairo riots

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Army vehicles ran over protesters. Live ammunition was used. Extensive rounds of tear gas were fired, and showers of beatings from the military police and the central security forces. At least 19 people have been killed, and more than 150 injured. The toll keeps increasing.

The Army also stormed Al-Hurra TV station and 25 January TV stations, and took them off air. The Egyptian state run TV is inciting the public against the “Coptic protesters” and even called on the citizens to take to the streets to “protect the army”!! SCAF is trying to instigate a sectarian civil war.

The protesters are not only Copts. There are Muslims present in the protests too and are talking active part in resisting the police and the army. There are ongoing battles as I’m writing now. The unifying chants in downtown Cairo is against the army and field marshal Tantawi. Protesters are chanting: “Muslims and Christians… One hand!” and “Death to the Field Marshal.”
Army and police massacre protesters at Maspero 3arabawy

There's also videos at that link.
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Old 10-10-2011, 05:28 PM
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Default Re: Cairo riots

What is "Results in senseless violence".

Let's try, "Why Religion Sucks" for 300, Alex.
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Old 10-10-2011, 05:32 PM
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Default Re: Cairo riots

It's not really about religion though. It's about a regime playing the tribal card to remain in power.

Pretty much like Milosevic did when he revoked Kosovo's autonomy, which was the first step in the disintegration of Yugoslavia. This is a very dangerous move too.
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Old 10-10-2011, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: Cairo riots

The religion motive does exist. This particular incident may well attach more to the regime, but the religious animosity is also real, in my humble. Here is a vignette from May 8th of this year.

Christian-Muslim clashes in Cairo killed at least 11 people and wounded hundreds as two churches were burned, Egyptian authorities said Sunday. Read more: 11 killed, churches burned in Cairo - UPI.com
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Old 10-10-2011, 05:42 PM
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Default Re: Cairo riots

I don't really think that kind of inter-religious strife has a lot to do with religion. It's tribal. 'Us' versus 'them'. It has to do with fear (of the 'other'), with power, with revenge. Religion as such does not enter into it. It could just as easily have been an ethnic difference.

And there are strong suspicions that some of those attacks on churches were orchestrated by the regime as well.
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Old 10-10-2011, 05:45 PM
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Default Re: Cairo riots

Leaving aside whether religion is to blame, does that change the fact that the new government needs to address the persecution of the Copts?

I don't think it's only occurring because of Mubarak.
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Old 10-10-2011, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: Cairo riots

Absolutely not. There is definitely a problem that needs to be addressed. But my point was that it is worse than that, they are not just ignoring the problem, they are actively making it worse because they think that they can hold on to power that way.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:12 PM
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Default Re: Cairo riots

Here'is Juan Cole's take on it:
Quote:
The important thing to note is that while one can understand Christian anger over the events in Mar Inabu, it is a tiny place way out in the boondocks, and what happened there is, while hardly unprecedented, not typical of the fate of Christians in Egypt. The Coptic Sawaris family, with more than one billionaire in it, did not get to where they are without partnerships and alliances with Muslim Egyptians. There is an open alliance, e.g., between Naguib Sawaris and Egypt’s Sufi orders, comprised of more open-minded mystical Muslims who reject Salafi fundamentalism.

The big question is why the military in Cairo responded so violently to the attempt to stage a sit-in at the television station. After all, there have been much bigger protests on many occasions since Hosni Mubarak stepped down, which have not been dealt with so brutally. There are only a few possibilities:

1. Relatively green troops went berserk on hearing from state television that the Coptic protesters were attacking military police (which was untrue before the military ran their friends over with tanks). State television is still full of Mubarak appointees and sympathizers.

2. The officers who gave the crackdown orders are tired of public protests and decided to send a signal that they should end, figuring that it was safe to crack down hard on a minority to make them an object lesson.

3. The officers deliberately wanted to divide and rule by distracting the public with sectarian tensions, as an excuse to maintain military rule.

The last explanation is the darkest, and one credited by many in the democracy movement. Personally, I think explanation 1) above is more likely.
Why did the Egyptian Military Attack the Copts? | Informed Comment
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  #12  
Old 10-11-2011, 02:29 PM
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Default Re: Cairo riots

Quote:
Egypt's Finance Minister Hazem el-Beblawi, who was appointed by the ruling military council after popular protests earlier this year, has resigned, officials and media say.

Mr Beblawi quit over the government's handling of a Christian Coptic protest on Sunday, they said.
BBC News - Egypt minister Hazem el-Beblawi quits over Coptic rally
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Old 10-11-2011, 03:04 PM
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Default Re: Cairo riots

Wow, he totally copped to the rap. I'm impressed by that, at least.
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Old 10-11-2011, 05:33 PM
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Default Re: Cairo riots

Was his resignation an admission of culpability or an act of protest against the government's complicity in the event? It is not clear from the article.
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Old 10-11-2011, 05:44 PM
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Default Re: Cairo riots

I think it was an act of protest, he is the Finance Minister, so I don't see how he would be responsible for it (any more than any other minister anyway).

ETA: they have expanded the article btw, it quotes him now:
Quote:
"Despite the fact that there might not be direct responsibility on the government's part, responsibility lies, ultimately, with the government," state news agency Mena quoted Mr Beblawi as saying.

"The current circumstances are very difficult and require a new and different way of thinking and working," he said.
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Old 11-22-2011, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: Cairo riots

Ok, I don't feel like starting a whole new thread and the other one is too Libyan, so here.

Fucked up situation and what the hell does nouveau dictator Tantawi have to say? Go home and let things quieten down.

Yeah, they saw what happened when they did that last time. How about YOU go home this time. And stay there!

Also:
Quote:
Mohammed Sami, 45, has baffled many protesters by waving a sign above his head that reads: "Mubarak, leave!" -- which he also brandished during the uprising earlier this year that ended Mubarak's 30-year reign.

"Why the same sign?" a bystander asked him.

"Did you feel there's been any change since he left?" replied Sami, a teacher, venting his disillusionment with Egypt's new military rulers.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middle...917310139.html
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Old 11-22-2011, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: Cairo riots

duci novo, similis duci seneci
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Old 11-22-2011, 07:42 PM
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Default Re: Cairo riots

Oh, the good news btw: the Muslim Brotherhood did not support the call for protests this time and it was still a major success. So a) they may not be as popular as everyone seems to think they are and b) they may pay a price for this at the elections.
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:04 PM
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Default Re: Cairo riots

I didn't :thanked: that out of any particular prejudice, except that I'm not really down with any form of theocracy, which it's my understanding the MB might tend to support. Just want to make that crystal clear. Religion is all fine and good with me as long as they stay out of governments and don't go hatin' on the other religions, or lackers thereof.
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Old 11-23-2011, 02:16 PM
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Default Re: Cairo riots

I guess it's any nations' (where does the apostrophe go for nation to be a possessive?) own choice if they want theocracy or not, when they are at the point of choosing governments. It just seems like choosing theocracy builds a prejudice right into the structure. Anyway, I hope the Egyptians are able to work things out to their own satisfaction in this latest confrontation with their interim military government.

It seems like the protesters are not in the mood for making any deals just now.

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/...134380558.html
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Old 11-23-2011, 04:37 PM
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Default Re: Cairo riots

Quote:
There is growing evidence of a split between the Central Security Force riot police and the army. The former have repeatedly fired tear gas and rubber bullets at protesters, even when the fighting stops, while the latter seems eager to stop the violence and has interposed itself between the two sides.

CNN's Ben Wedemann and Twitter user @MarwaApril describe what they saw:

bencnnIt is clear there is a serious disagreement between the Army and Interior Ministry over how to deal with the battle off #Tahrir #EgyptWed Nov 23 16:01:27

bencnnSaw Army soldiers trying to stop Central Security Forces from throwing rocks, shooting teargas, but they were outnumbered. #tahrir #egyptWed Nov 23 16:00:36

MarwaApril@bencnn They showed them arguing at state TV, the army general wants CSF to withdraw but the police gen refused & showed hesitanceWed Nov 23 16:17:13
Egypt Live Blog | Al Jazeera Blogs
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  #22  
Old 11-24-2011, 04:41 AM
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Default Re: Cairo riots

nation's = singular possessive

nations' = plural possessive
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Old 11-24-2011, 02:53 PM
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Default Re: Cairo riots

38 dead in that latest round. That's intense, that is no game.

Egypt Daily News, Egypt News
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:56 PM
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Default Re: Cairo riots

According to al-Jazeera Egyptian football hooligans have joined the protesters in Tahrir square, bringing along a lot of experience in fighting the police.

Quote:
The Ultras have stood at the forefront of recent clashes with security forces. In many cases, they were armed with rocks, petrol bombs and firecrackers.

"The Ultras are here. I know that because they’re the only ones facing the CSF with force while singing their hymns," protester Mosa'ab Elshamy wrote on Twitter on the first day of clashes.

It is part of the Ultras code to remain anonymous to non-members. Dressed in a uniform of skinny jeans, neck scarves and hooded sweatshirts pulled tight over their heads, the Ultras in Tahrir could go unnoticed to those unfamiliar with their habits.

As clashes between protesters and police erupted on the side streets of Tahrir Square last week, the Ultras stood together, chanting their team songs and shooting fireworks and other incendiary weapons.

Elshamy, a photographer and activist, was in Tahrir when he noticed the arrival of the football fanatics. They had come to confront a police force armed with rubber bullets and tear gas.

"They stayed there in the square almost through 100 hours of fighting," Elshamy said. "It’s easy to notice them because of their use of Molotov cocktails, their extreme courage and recklessness, their chants. They became a common sight."
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fea...912960586.html
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Old 11-30-2011, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: Cairo riots

Football hooligans... a force for... good? :chin:

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