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06-26-2020, 03:59 PM
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Solipsist
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Kolmannessa kerroksessa
Gender: Male
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Re: Miscellany
And can you guess these countries, which are entirely literal translations:
Yhdysvallat
Yhdistynyt kuningaskunta
Yhdistyneet arabiemiirikunnat
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06-26-2020, 04:09 PM
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Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
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Re: Miscellany
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP
naming the whole for a part
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Infraction! One of my admittedly idiopathic sins is passing up the opportunity to use the word synecdoche in casual conversation.
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06-26-2020, 04:25 PM
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Solipsist
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Kolmannessa kerroksessa
Gender: Male
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Re: Miscellany
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP
naming the whole for a part
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Infraction! One of my admittedly idiopathic sins is passing up the opportunity to use the word synecdoche in casual conversation.
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I only demurred from using that fine word because I have a moderately strong feeling there's another word for naming a country after a part of it.
This constitutes my appeal against your infraction.
In further news, I have upheld my appeal
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06-26-2020, 07:09 PM
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NPC
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hellmouth
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Re: Miscellany
What about naming a country after the whole continent it is in?
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06-26-2020, 07:42 PM
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Solipsist
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Kolmannessa kerroksessa
Gender: Male
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Re: Miscellany
Were any country so self-important as to do this, it would certainly be another kind of metonymy.
None of the various pages about synecdoche that I've looked at give names of countries as examples, but pages about the (broadly synonymous) term pars pro toto do give several. Such as "GB" meaning the whole of the UK, as if Northern Ireland is a negligible add-on, or the word for "England" applying to the whole of Britain or even the whole of the UK. I'm pretty sure there are a couple of other countries in Britain although I cannae recall just noo.
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06-26-2020, 09:01 PM
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Shitpost Sommelier
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Re: Miscellany
__________________
Peering from the top of Mount Stupid
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06-26-2020, 09:04 PM
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Shitpost Sommelier
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Re: Miscellany
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP
Were any country so self-important as to do this, it would certainly be another kind of metonymy.
None of the various pages about synecdoche that I've looked at give names of countries as examples, but pages about the (broadly synonymous) term pars pro toto do give several. Such as "GB" meaning the whole of the UK, as if Northern Ireland is a negligible add-on, or the word for "England" applying to the whole of Britain or even the whole of the UK. I'm pretty sure there are a couple of other countries in Britain although I cannae recall just noo.
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England seems to have a number of Quebecs.
__________________
Peering from the top of Mount Stupid
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06-26-2020, 10:10 PM
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Solipsist
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Kolmannessa kerroksessa
Gender: Male
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Re: Miscellany
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamilah Hauptmann
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Tanks Kam.
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06-27-2020, 05:13 AM
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Projecting my phallogos with long, hard diction
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dee Cee
Gender: Male
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Re: Miscellany
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP
France is Ranska but there's a reason for that too.
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That reason would be phonotactics and borrowing from Swedish franska. Although in Swedish, that means French, and France is Frankrike.
Finnish did not traditionally like consonant clusters in syllable onsets (lots of English loanwords have changed this to some extent, and perhaps more widespread knowledge of Swedish, although obviously contact and borrowings from Swedish would extend centuries back). Residentti Rump could tell you all about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP
And can you guess these countries, which are entirely literal translations:
Yhdysvallat
Yhdistynyt kuningaskunta
Yhdistyneet arabiemiirikunnat
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I'm guessing USA, UK and UAE.
Because kuning is Swedish for "king", so I assume kuningaskunta is "kingdom".
arabi-emiiri-kunnat is obviously Arab-Emirate-something, so clearly the yhd- element is something to do with "united", although it seems to take somewhat different forms in the three names.
Which then lead me to believe that the first one was the USA because it's the other common "United" country.
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06-27-2020, 11:34 AM
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Solipsist
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Kolmannessa kerroksessa
Gender: Male
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Re: Miscellany
You are correct in all points!
Except that the Finnish word for president is presidentti. Recent loan words don't lose initial consonant clusters although quite a few are pronounced colloquially with only one initial consonant - don't know if that applies to presidentti.
Yhdistynyt and plural yhdistyneet do indeed mean "united" and are derived ... via several steps ... from yksi one. Not sure why the name for the USA has a different form but it seems yhdys- is a prefix not a standalone word.
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06-29-2020, 12:46 AM
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Shitpost Sommelier
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Re: Miscellany
__________________
Peering from the top of Mount Stupid
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06-29-2020, 08:56 AM
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Solipsist
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Kolmannessa kerroksessa
Gender: Male
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Re: Miscellany
Quote:
Originally Posted by erimir
Residentti Rump could tell you all about it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP
Except that the Finnish word for president is presidentti. Recent loan words don't lose initial consonant clusters although quite a few are pronounced colloquially with only one initial consonant - don't know if that applies to presidentti.
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The other thing (and this bothers me) is that very few Finnish words end with a consonant. (In the base form - plurals, possessives and other forms often do.) So if we're going to sort out Trump's initial consonant cluster, then we should also sort out Rump's ending.
Residentti Rumppa.
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06-29-2020, 08:59 AM
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Quality Contributor
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Luxembourg
Gender: Male
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Re: Miscellany
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP
that very few Finnish words end with contain a consonant.
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06-29-2020, 10:14 AM
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Solipsist
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Kolmannessa kerroksessa
Gender: Male
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Re: Miscellany
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlight
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP
that very few Finnish words end with contain a consonant.
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Prkl!
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06-29-2020, 11:33 AM
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NPC
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hellmouth
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Re: Miscellany
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP
Residentti Rumppa.
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No, it is - respectfully - Presidentti Troomp, all right, but then the last word just hangs there in the air, awkwardly and anxiously, forever awaiting a vowel to save it or until we start talking about something else.
We miss Obama more than you can know.
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06-29-2020, 12:27 PM
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Counter
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Utrecht, the Netherlands
Gender: Male
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Re: Miscellany
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miisa
No, it is - respectfully - Presidentti Troomp, all right, but then the last word just hangs there in the air, awkwardly and anxiously, forever awaiting a vowel to save it or until we start talking about something else.
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If that's not relentlessly Finnish, I don't know what is.
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06-29-2020, 12:40 PM
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Quality Contributor
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Luxembourg
Gender: Male
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Re: Miscellany
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlight
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP
that very few Finnish words end with contain a consonant.
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Prkl!
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YOU ARE!
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06-29-2020, 02:38 PM
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Solipsist
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Kolmannessa kerroksessa
Gender: Male
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Re: Miscellany
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miisa
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP
Residentti Rumppa.
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No, it is - respectfully - Presidentti Troomp, all right, but then the last word just hangs there in the air, awkwardly and anxiously, forever awaiting a vowel to save it or until we start talking about something else.
We miss Obama more than you can know.
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Respectfully-aggressively.
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06-29-2020, 02:49 PM
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Quality Contributor
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Luxembourg
Gender: Male
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Re: Miscellany
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miisa
We miss Obama more than you can know.
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At this point I even miss Bush.
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06-29-2020, 06:22 PM
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NPC
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hellmouth
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Re: Miscellany
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miisa
We miss Obama more than you can know.
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At this point I even miss Bush.
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Fun fact: Finnish does not differentiate well between sibilants, so it makes little difference to us whether it is bush, buss or buzz. Presidentti Buzz.
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06-29-2020, 09:07 PM
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Solipsist
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Kolmannessa kerroksessa
Gender: Male
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Re: Miscellany
Also the letter 'b' does not occur in native Finnish words - and if it did would participate in consonant gradation (changing into each other depending on what suffixes follow) with 'p' the way d, t and tt do, and g, k and kk do.
So he might as well be Presidentti Puss.
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06-29-2020, 09:34 PM
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Solipsist
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Kolmannessa kerroksessa
Gender: Male
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Re: Miscellany
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06-29-2020, 10:29 PM
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Projecting my phallogos with long, hard diction
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dee Cee
Gender: Male
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Re: Miscellany
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP
Quote:
Originally Posted by erimir
Residentti Rump could tell you all about it.
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Except that the Finnish word for president is presidentti. Recent loan words don't lose initial consonant clusters although quite a few are pronounced colloquially with only one initial consonant - don't know if that applies to presidentti.
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Presidentti is given as an example on Wikipedia of a modern loan word that is usually pronounced with a consonant cluster, among all but the least educated/most monolingual speakers, but that you can hear it pronounced as residentti.
At any rate, Resident Rump is a better moniker than President Trump, no?
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06-30-2020, 08:50 AM
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Solipsist
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Kolmannessa kerroksessa
Gender: Male
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Re: Miscellany
Residentti Perse.
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07-01-2020, 01:51 AM
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Shitpost Sommelier
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Re: Miscellany
__________________
Peering from the top of Mount Stupid
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