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  #226  
Old 06-21-2019, 09:10 PM
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Default Re: So, Iran, huh?

Putin warns war between US and Iran would be 'catastrophe' | TheHill

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  #227  
Old 06-21-2019, 09:36 PM
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Default Re: So, Iran, huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by erimir View Post
Also worth noting that although Trump decided against launching missiles at Iran yesterday,
Forgive me if I need a little more evidence than claims from "Trump" or anyone in his "administration" that he actually decided this...
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  #228  
Old 06-21-2019, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: So, Iran, huh?

Well, however it went down, at any rate, missiles weren't launched and he's not currently ordering them to be.
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  #229  
Old 06-22-2019, 03:57 AM
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Default Re: So, Iran, huh?

Iran has not [yet] violated the Nuclear Deal; the U.S., under Trump, has.

While I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it turned out that Iran attacked the tankers in question -- out of a sense of desperation, if nothing else -- I rather doubt that's the case. Iran would have a lot to lose if it were to provoke a U.S. attack.

It's interesting that Trump and his stooges declared Iran to be responsible almost immediately after the tanker attacks occurred. That seemed ... suspicious ... at the time, and nothing I've heard or read since makes me think that the case against Iran holds any water at all.

Let's face it, it's not as if U.S. officials haven't lied to justify going to war in the recent past. And in particular, I wouldn't trust anything that came out of the mouth of Trump or any of his stooges. Trump could declare that grass is green and I'd have to double-check.


Who would benefit if we were to go to war with Iran? Well, John Bolton and Mike Pompeo have been advocating war with Iran for years now. And both have been known to ... shade the truth ... while trying to gin up support for their war-mongering.

Both the Saudi Arabian and Israeli governments would love to see the U.S. attack Iran. After all, U.S. strikes would almost-certainly seriously degrade Iran's military capabilities and destabilize its government.


I'm not saying that Iran wasn't responsible for the attacks on the tankers, but Trump and Company were awfully quick to say that Iran was responsible. And so far, they haven't provided any real evidence to back that claim.
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  #230  
Old 01-03-2020, 05:11 AM
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Default Re: So, Iran, huh?

US kills Iran’s most powerful general in Baghdad strike
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BAGHDAD (AP) — The United States killed Iran’s top general and the architect of Tehran’s proxy wars in the Middle East in an airstrike at Baghdad’s international airport Friday, an attack that threatens to dramatically ratchet up tensions in the region.

The targeted killing of Gen. Qassem Soleimani, the head of Iran’s elite Quds Force, could draw forceful Iranian retaliation against American interests in the region and spiral into a far larger conflict between the U.S. and Iran, endangering U.S. troops in Iraq, Syria and beyond.

The Defense Department said it killed Soleimani because he “was actively developing plans to attack American diplomats and service members in Iraq and throughout the region.” It also accused Soleimani of approving the attacks on the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad earlier this week.

An adviser to Iran’s President Hassan Rouhani quickly warned U.S. President Donald Trump of retaliation from Tehran.

“Trump through his gamble has dragged the U.S. into the most dangerous situation in the region,” Hessameddin Ashena wrote on the social media app Telegram. “Whoever put his foot beyond the red line should be ready to face its consequences.”

The airport strike also killed Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis, deputy commander of Iran-backed militias in Iraq known as the Popular Mobilization Forces, and five others, including the PMF’s airport protocol officer, Mohammed Reda, Iraqi officials said.
How would the US react if Iran assassinated a top US general or a cabinet member? This is a vastly rash act.
Does Iran destroy Saudi Arabian infrastructure?
Does Iran stop shipping out of the Gulf?
Does Iran target US forces in Iraq? Syria? Yemen? Or fuck I don't know one of the 120 countries in the world with US forces in them?
World oil prices just spiked, by the way.
Iraq has a population of 38 million- Iran has a population of 83 million. Mostly younger people because older generations died in war against a US-supported Iraq. Now we're going to teach 83 million people that we are monsters.

Please email or call your representatives if so moved and tell then you do not want a war with Iran. I'm attending a protest tomorrow night, there may be some in your areas as well.
No war with Iran. Trump's military just assassinated a top foreign general and this is an act of war and unjustified, whatever your feelings on Iran's government, its brutal crackdowns on recent protests, its theocracy. I do not want our country to attack or invade Iran and I do not want the US to start more wars. Fucking stop.
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  #231  
Old 01-03-2020, 05:44 AM
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Default Re: So, Iran, huh?

Just emailed both my senators and my congressional representative:
Quote:
The Trump Administration greenlighting the US Military assassinating Iranian General Qassem Soleimani is an act of war, unilaterally undertaken with the flimsiest of pretexts. Whatever opinions one has on Iran's government, the people of the United States do not want a war with Iran, the US has spent $6 trillion and killed half-a-million people in the War on Terror now, in wars we started on false pretext and then have lost. We have no time for this, the continent of Australia is currently on fire. Demand that the Trump Administration stand down. Question why we think we can win a war with Iran considering our track record. Question why we're starting a war with a nation with 83 million people when we have drones over eight countries and too many active military operations as it is. Question why we've just destroyed the world price of oil and put US military personnel in harm's way all across the region. Such an act of war was and is a fool's errand, but what comes next and how you stand is important now. Please use your power to stand against war with Iran and for a future where we don't have assassination programs. Sincerely,
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  #232  
Old 01-03-2020, 07:47 AM
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Default Re: So, Iran, huh?

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  #233  
Old 01-04-2020, 12:30 AM
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Default Re: So, Iran, huh?



Looks like Trump's not stopping with just Soleimani. I dunno if Iran would back down, but I can't imagine the regime can afford to lose that much face with the hardliners to just not do anything, they need them to maintain power. It might be worse for Iran and the world, but if Trump is putting them in a position where not doing anything is a definite loser for the people in power, they will probably take their chances risking escalation.

What form their response will take is unclear, but obviously they can't be looking at how Trump pathetically tried to win Kim Jong-Un's approval and conclude that having nukes would get them worse treatment, so ramping up their nuclear program again seems likely, at minimum, and there will probably be some sort of attack on the US military or an ally like Saudi Arabia.
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  #234  
Old 01-04-2020, 05:15 AM
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Default Re: So, Iran, huh?

Attended a No War On Iran rally tonight in downtown Portland across from the Federal Building, about 300 people in attendance; Portland DSA spoke, as did Jobs With Justice; Congressional candidate, child of immigrants, and military veteran Albert Lee spoke, as did a DSA comrade born in Bagdad, and another born in Iran whose parents are in Tehran, and military veterans from Afghanistan and Vietnam spoke.
Hundreds gather in downtown Portland for €˜No War on Iran€™ protest - oregonlive.com

Code Pink as well as other groups have actions planned Saturday Jan 4:
Sat Jan 4: National Day of Action U.S. Troops Out of Iraq! | CODEPINK
National Day Of Action: US Out Of Iraq, No War On Iran | PopularResistance.Org
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  #235  
Old 01-04-2020, 06:01 AM
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Default Re: So, Iran, huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by erimir View Post
ramping up their nuclear program again seems likely, at minimum
And given that no-one can trust that the USA will keep to international agreements following a change of president any more, there's no reason for them to ever agree to ramp it down again.
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  #236  
Old 01-04-2020, 06:05 AM
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Default Re: So, Iran, huh?

Iran will strike back. Where I don't know. They may hit in Iraq, or Bahrain. Or they may blow tRump up on his Mar a Lago golf course. I don't know.
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  #237  
Old 01-04-2020, 06:54 AM
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Default Re: So, Iran, huh?

A few things I've been thinking of the last 24 hours:

-The bombing of Gaddafi's tent in the 80s.
-bin Laden. And how the warhawk tweeters seem to be using the acronym 'UBL'. An in group signal?
-A US president with his name plastered on buildings all over the world. I dunno if I'd buy a Trump property if I were in the market for a condo.
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  #238  
Old 01-04-2020, 07:19 PM
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Default Re: So, Iran, huh?

hey, remember when Killary was NEOCON HAWK who wanted war with Iran, because and gentle dovish Trump, the meek isolationist, is all bluster and would definitely not go looking for new conflicts in the Middle East? Those were really, really good takes, and definitely not completely fucking retarded, and we should listen to those folks again because they have real important stuff to say and are real super smart about that stuff and really when it comes down to it who ever could have said who was the lesser of two evils amirite.

And how about them tax cuts, so good for the working class.

Last edited by ChuckF; 01-04-2020 at 08:29 PM.
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  #239  
Old 01-04-2020, 09:05 PM
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INORITE? And Kavanaugh is definitely not a crying rapey manchild. Merrick Garland is a cuck anyway. And who says any justices for life on a federal bench need any more qualifications than being under 30?
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  #240  
Old 01-04-2020, 09:16 PM
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Default Re: So, Iran, huh?

You know, I've noticed that there are people who would say that anyone who voted for supported the war in Iraq is wrong forever and should shut up forever (or at least about foreign policy).

BUT ALSO they will say



Let's hear what this guy and people with similar opinions (like Glenn Greenwald, who said Trump had a "coherent philosophy that is noninterventionist") have to say! They have a unique and valuable perspective, definitely not predictable dumbshittery.
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  #241  
Old 01-04-2020, 09:17 PM
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Default Re: So, Iran, huh?


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  #242  
Old 01-04-2020, 09:39 PM
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Default Re: So, Iran, huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by erimir View Post
Let's hear what this guy and people with similar opinions (like Glenn Greenwald, who said Trump had a "coherent philosophy that is noninterventionist") have to say! They have a unique and valuable perspective, definitely not predictable dumbshittery.
They are certainly invaluable in navigating the thorny problem of what to do if one candidate is not a 100% platonically perfect human manifestation of of my all of my policy ideals, which was posed for the first time ever in 2016. I guess we still don't know the answer, not at all clear :shrug: Trump 2020, maybe, you know???
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  #243  
Old 01-04-2020, 10:30 PM
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Default Re: So, Iran, huh?

Man, I swear his real campaign slogan could have actually been "C'mon, It Won't Be As Bad As You Think*. (*it will, and much worse**) ((**but her emails))
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  #244  
Old 01-05-2020, 05:26 AM
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Default Re: So, Iran, huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by erimir View Post
Let's hear what this guy and people with similar opinions (like Glenn Greenwald, who said Trump had a "coherent philosophy that is noninterventionist") have to say! They have a unique and valuable perspective, definitely not predictable dumbshittery.

Let's rather hear what people like Gropey Joe, Pocahontas or Bootycheek have to say about this. "He was a horrible murderer but mimimimi" is not encouraging.
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Old 01-05-2020, 02:52 PM
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Ugh, Pocahontas, isn’t she just the worst?? Like when she starts droning (see what I did there) on about her plan for aggressive destruction of Iranian cultural sites it’s like omg, just like Trump. Probably because they are the same, except I read how Trump is non-interventionist.
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  #246  
Old 01-05-2020, 02:59 PM
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Default Re: So, Iran, huh?

But, that's "whataboutery" straight out of the Putin playbook, dude, and you aren't even very good at it.

Gropey Joe, Pocahontas or Bootycheek (lol let's hear it for Trump's favourite nameburns!1!) didn't advise anyone not to vote for Clinton in '16 because Trump might be okay.

Okay?
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  #247  
Old 01-05-2020, 10:36 PM
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Default Re: So, Iran, huh?

Now is Bootycheek meant to be an elementary school thing, or is it a :gayburn:? Both? :chin:

I wasn't endorsing anyone's particular take on things, just pointing out how very, extremely wrong some people were just 3 years ago (many of them wrong up until just about now).

However, I'm not really sure how "Soleimani was a bad guy, but we can't just assassinate high-level government officials of other countries, and you need a plan and this brings us to the brink of war and could cause chaos in the region, etc." is really a bad take. Soleimani wasn't a good guy just because he was opposed to US interests. The Iranian regime aren't good guys.

The point is, of course, that Saddam Hussein wasn't a good guy, but that doesn't mean that invading Iraq was a good idea. Kim Jong-Un isn't a good guy, but so what? That doesn't mean it's a good idea to assassinate him. Invading Iraq was a bad idea, assassinating Kim would probably be a very bad idea, and assassinating Soleimani looks like it was a bad idea, and might've been an extremely bad idea. I'd prefer that the Democrats point out that whether he was a bad guy is beside the point, but saying that he was a bad guy isn't some horrible thing. It's nowhere near the level of horrible take that saying Trump was a non-interventionist with peaceful impulses was. Or saying that Trump wouldn't appoint Scalias, or the like.

Democrats unanimously voted to restrain Trump's actions regarding Iran (but were overruled by the Republicans, since they control the Senate). They are criticizing Trump's actions, saying he is inflaming the region, throwing away diplomatic progress in exchange for nothing good, and bringing us to the brink of war, that he was perhaps baited by the Ayatollah's tweets. Democrats, including yes, Hillary Clinton, also said that this sort of scenario was a risk of electing Trump, which was exactly correct. Greenwald instead said that Trump had a coherent non-interventionist ideology. Sorry your hero was a fucking dumbass, because the guy who hates Muslims and repeatedly praised war crimes being willing to do this sort of thing was entirely predictable.
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  #248  
Old 01-06-2020, 08:12 AM
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But, that's "whataboutery" straight out of the Putin playbook, dude, and you aren't even very good at it.

Okay?
:russian:

Quote:
Gropey Joe, Pocahontas or Bootycheek (lol let's hear it for Trump's favourite nameburns!1!) didn't advise anyone not to vote for Clinton in '16 because Trump might be okay.
Yeah, but who did? :confused:
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  #249  
Old 01-07-2020, 07:06 AM
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Default Re: So, Iran, huh?

Cultural sites, eh?

Here's what could be lost if Trump bombs Iran's cultural treasures | Art and design | The Guardian
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  #250  
Old 01-07-2020, 09:52 PM
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It's moot, the Pentagon has made clear it's not gonna happen and that it would amount to a war crime.
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