Some questions about professorship

[Philosophy]

How much does a professor make and how long does it take to get on the tenure track?

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by Philosophy

How much does a professor make and how long does it take to get on the tenure track?

Not much and completing the tenure track is just as important as get on it. It varies with field and institution.

[Philosophy]

Not much? Someone told me a professor can make $65 000 first year.

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by Philosophy

Not much? Someone told me a professor can make $65 000 first year.

Perhaps as a "full professor". But you will have to go years as an abused and entirely underpaid graduate assistant, then years as a lowly "associate professor", then, once actually on the tenure track, years as an "assistant professor". Unless you are exceedingly skilled and knowledgeable, in an area where there is little in the way of existing skill or knowledge, the competition will be fierce and you won't walk out of graduate school with your fresh Ph.D. (or whatever) into a $65,000 professorial gig. The more competition there is in the field, in alignment with the institutional demand for instructors in that field, will determine what salary any given practitioner may bring down. Again, it will depend upon what field and what institution as to the remuneration of their academics.

When I was substitute teaching, I ran into several Ph.D.s who were working as high school teachers. This was particularly the case amongst mathematics and science teachers, where they could make more as a secondary school teacher than they could teaching post-secondary students. They'd last until the private sector lured them away with even more enticing offers.

[Philosophy]

Which field allows you to the make the most money if you work in it?

sorry, poorly phrased question.

[Crumb]

Professional athletics.

[Philosophy]

Useless.

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by Philosophy

Which field allows you to the make the most money if you work in it?

sorry, poorly phrased question.

Um...In academia, or generally?

For generally, I'd guess the hard sciences or engineering (mechanical, electrical, electronic, nuclear - not civil), or finance, which is usually part of a business curriculum.

I haven't a good idea in terms of demands for academic types, but I'd say probably in the same areas...if they can make good money in the open market, why stay in academia? Those areas where professorial types are easily and quickly hired away would probably be good sources for academic incomes....just to keep them on staff. (Of course, they look for altruists, who "like to teach", as long as they publish regularly in acceptable media, because they tend to be cheaper.)

Perhaps we should see if The Lone Ranger checks in. He just stepped on to the tenure track...or will, this coming autumn. I think he just picked up, or will pick up, his Ph.D. in life sciences of some kind (zoology/biology) and is interviewing at small private colleges.

[Philosophy]

Aww, I'd love to professing, publishing, and making discoveries/inventions in the academia. But I guess I might have to consider economics-related career as part-time, too...

Econ & Phil, how about that?

[livius drusus]

Do you actually have an interest in teaching? Money seems to be a higher priority to you.

[Philosophy]

Yup, i'm very interested in becoming a professor. Money is the second priority. After all, I come from a family wherein both parents are economists. So...

[livius drusus]

I asked you if you were interested in teaching. Again, that doesn't seem to be much of a factor to you. It's not a bad thing, necessarily. There are plenty of professorships out where teaching is secondary at best.

[Philosophy]

O, of course I'm interested in teaching. But the thing is, being a professor also gives me the opportunity to write and publish, which is cool, as I am passionate about writing.

Probably the most immediate aspect of teaching that I enjoy is that I can grade students' papers; O yeah, you gotta love giving out the grades...

*insert evil professor smiley here*

[viscousmemories]

Originally Posted by Philosophy

Which field allows you to the make the most money if you work in it?

And here I thought you were only interested in prestige.

[Philosophy]

I'm trying to see which profession I like most and which also gives me the best monetary advantage (having someone pay you for what you like doing is a great thing, no?)

Is making sure of that a bad thing or something?

[Godwhacker]

Varies considerably by discipline as well. Certain fields that are "hot" or have corporations sending in money for research, etc., can certainly have asst. prof's that start above $50,000. Some fields that I have heard of that pay more for starting profs are certain biomedical fields, engineering, and computer related disciplines.

Liberal Arts and Education tend to get the lowest. Anything that a corporation doesn't give a hoot about, and therefore won't fund, will get the lower salaries. When I was looking into academia in psych, an asst. prof started in the lower $30,000 (often less than what a starting schoolteacher would earn). Its to the point where they now expect you to have enough grant money to basically pay your own salary out of whatever grant monies you can get. If you don't bring in enough money to pay your salary and then some, they don't tenure you and you're done.

[Philosophy]

How about a professorship in Economics?

[Jesus Christ]

Pay on that can be described as "not enough", if you teach for MnSCU.

[Waluigi]

If you're interested in teaching, then you are not interesting in professorship. Professorship is research, publishing papers, speaking engagements, prestige, politics, and, occasionally, as the mood suits you, teaching, which is actually more like lecturing.

If you want to be a teacher, you should get a degree and become an adjunct professor in your spare time. Or teach in a secondary school, or a small private college. Avoid big universities.

In any event, you do seem awfully concerned about money for someone who's not in it for the money. Good teachers are generally underpaid, because of the way in which teaching jobs are structured (in the U.S., anyway). Anytime a Union is involved, it evens out the pay scale, which means the superstars are getting underpaid while the mediocre staff are probably getting overpaid.

[Clutch Munny]

Originally Posted by Waluigi

If you're interested in teaching, then you are not interesting in professorship.

If you're only interested in teaching, this would be true. Otherwise it's false.

Professorship is research, publishing papers, speaking engagements, prestige, politics, and, occasionally, as the mood suits you, teaching, which is actually more like lecturing.

Publishing papers falls under "research". Administration and service are a large component of the job -- certainly larger than prestige and politics, whatever you have in mind there -- but do not surface on your list. Teaching is normally a major requirement for professors, moreover; "as the mood suits you" has little or nothing to do with it. So you seem not to know what you're talking about.

I'm also not sure of the lecturing v. teaching distinction you seem to have in mind. I lecture. My students ask questions. I answer them. They send me emails; I reply. They come to my office hours; I help them to the best of my abilities. They write assignments, essays, examination, and I grade these (or sometimes supervise TAs who grade them). All of these are part of being a course lecturer at virtually any university -- they are not optional, or supererogation on my part. It's not clear to me what extra components could be involved in teaching.

[Roland98]

Originally Posted by Waluigi

If you're interested in teaching, then you are not interesting in professorship. Professorship is research, publishing papers, speaking engagements, prestige, politics, and, occasionally, as the mood suits you, teaching, which is actually more like lecturing.

Uh, yeah, I'm also a professor and while research is the main part of the job, I'm also expected to devote ~30% of my time to teaching.

As mentioned, pay will vary by field and university. I make a pretty decent salary (as professors go) in epidemiology; I would have made less had I remained in microbiology, despite having to do a longer post-doc. (I didn't realize that going into it, but it was a nice bonus). Pay differs between large and small institutions; private vs. public, etc. Try here for some rough estimates.

Edit: okay, think you have to subscribe to get access. This is the abstract, though:

Faculty salaries lagged behind inflation this year for the first time in eight years, according to a new report by the American Association of University Professors.

Average faculty salaries are 2.8 percent higher this academic year, a slight uptick from the 2.1-percent increase of a year ago. But given the 3.3-percent inflation rate for 2004, real salary levels actually fell by a few tenths of a percent. The average salary for all professors was $68,505.

That overall number does not indicate the wide variety in professors' salaries, though. The average salary in 2004-5 for a full-time professor at a private doctoral university was $127,214. On the other end, assistant professors at community colleges averaged $47,473. Generally, salaries at private institutions increased by a greater percentage than those at public ones.

[Philosophy]

Bookmarked. Thanks a lot Prof.

C of William and Mary (Va.)

I Doctoral Institution

Prof: 106.0

Assoc. Prof: 73.2

Assis. Prof:60.8

Instr: 44.2


U of Virginia (Va.)

I Doctoral Institution

Prof: 118.1

Assoc. Prof: 78.1

Assis. Prof: 64.1

Instr: 49.9

For public institutions, these figures aren't bad at all.

Harvard U (Mass.)

I Doctoral Institution

Prof: 163.2

Assoc Prof: 92.3

Assis Prof: 82.9

Instr: 47.9

How published needs one be to teach at such an institution?

[Clutch Munny]

Originally Posted by Philosophy

How published needs one be to teach at such an institution?

Why don't you write them and ask? I suggest including the smilies, so they'll remember you.

[Philosophy]

[Waluigi]

Originally Posted by Clutch Munny

Teaching is normally a major requirement for professors, moreover; "as the mood suits you" has little or nothing to do with it. So you seem not to know what you're talking about.

My experience (anecdotal, I know) of professors at large universities is that teaching students often ranks low on their priority list.

Small colleges, state schools, and community colleges seem to draw professors that are more student-focused. Again, that's just a generalization based on what I have seen and/or heard from friends. And, of course, I'm in the U.S., and it may be completely different in other countries.

What size school do you teach at?

Originally Posted by Clutch Munny

I'm also not sure of the lecturing v. teaching distinction you seem to have in mind.

This was my bad. I forgot that "lecture" has a specific connotation with respect to education.

In my little world, giving a lecture is a very one-way, one-sided actitvity: I talk at you while you sit there. Teaching is more interactive, and more closely represents what you've described yourself as doing.

'Twas a bad choice of words, and I'm not going to try further to make a distinction.