Oil slick heading to our shores

[LadyShea]

Looks like the oil slick from the exploded then sunken rig may hit the northern Gulf Coast before they can get it contained. That means lots of animals might be affected as we have everything from dolphins to migrating birds to nesting sea turtles here.

What usually happens in these cases? How is it handled? I want to be prepared to help. Should I expect the appearance of national groups if/when it does happen, that can kinda organize volunteers?

[beyelzu]

What usually happens?

Exxon blames a drunken captain and not there own lack of safety protocols.

[LadyShea]

It was a brand new BP rig. Will BP have to finance all the cleanup? If oil and dead animals come to shore it's gonna kill our tourist season...can BP be sued for lost revenue?

[The Lone Ranger]

For seabirds like gannets, it's absolutely vital that the feathers not mat together.

In a healthy bird, the feathers are hooked together by tiny barbules. These knit the feathers together so tightly that little air and virtually no water can penetrate. This allows seabirds to swim and dive in water that's much colder than their body cores without losing precious body heat. The air trapped in the feathers also provides bouyancy.

When feathers become oiled, they mat together. This destroys both their insulative and bouyant properties. So it's really just a question of whether the bird drowns first or dies of hypothermia.

[The same is true of mammals that use fur for insulation and bouyancy, such as sea otters. But there aren't too many of those in the waters off the Louisiana coast.]



So, while it might seem strange, the best thing to do for oiled birds is to dunk them in soapy water and wash that oil out. If a good job is done of it, the birds will be fine once their feathers dry and can be preened back into good condition.

It's hard work and the birds typically don't cooperate, but it must be done if they're to survive.


Cheers,

Michael

[LadyShea]

Thanks TLR. According to the director of Share the Beach, with the winds, they are expecting the oil to hit here in Alabama, MS and along the FL panhandle.

The biggest concern in our area is the birds and the wetlands system in general, and since turtle nesting season officially starts Saturday that is also a concern. Do the dolphins know to get out of the way, because A)it's calving season in our river and B) if I go down to the beach to help and it's covered in dead dolphins I will have some kind of breakdown.

Also, of course our tourism and seafood industries might be threatened.

TLR, do you know of any national or state groups that will be likely to respond? I would like more info, and I would also like concerned people to be able to donate.

[The Lone Ranger]

Oil spills typically hit seabirds harder than other animals; they're terribly vulnerable to oil on/in the water.

Dolphins and sea turtles seem much less vulnerable, since they have little (in the case of dolphins) or no (in the case of turtles) fur to which the oil can adhere. There is evidence that if a dolphin or sea turtle should happen to surface in oil floating on the water it could be harmed though, because the oil can damage the animal's eyes and possibly block respiratory passages.

If oil winds up on beaches where the turtles nest, that could potentially be disastrous. Oil coating and mixed into the sand could be very harmful to adults attempting to dig into the sand to lay their eggs, to the eggs themselves, and to young turtles trying to dig their way out of the oil/sand mixture.

If oil winds up in estuaries, this will be very bad for the local fish and shrimp populations. Estuaries are among the most productive of marine ecosystems, and in a great many fish and crustacean species, the young stay in estuaries until they are large-enough to brave the open ocean. And ironically, some studies indicate that fish tend to be attracted to oil in the water, which they may ingest with lethal results. (The oil in the water may look like food to them.)


Off the top of my head, I'd guess that a good place to start would be by placing a call to the local branch of the Audubon Society. If anyone's likely to know of organized cleanup efforts and/or to be sponsoring them, it would probably be the Audubon Society.


It might not be a bad idea to call the local branches of the Department of Natural Resources and/or the Fish and Wildlife Service, but I understand that these agencies sometimes discourage volunteer efforts to clean beaches and wildlife.


Cheers,

Michael

[LadyShea]

Also, the Bon Secour NWR would be affected if the slick reaches here, can we expect a government response as well?

It might not be a bad idea to call the local branches of the Department of Natural Resources and/or the Fish and Wildlife Service, but I understand that these agencies sometimes discourage volunteer efforts to clean beaches and wildlife.

My info so far has come from Share the Beach (http://www.alabamaseaturtles.com) which is somehow sanctioned and/or monitored by F&W so I assume that's where the director is getting at least some of his info.

Kinda my biggest concern is it doesn't seem like anyone is mobilizing...I don't know if they are assuming it will be contained in the Gulf and not get to shore, or what exactly, but it seems like a less than urgent response.

[Gonzo]

Man, that's really depressing. Wish I could help out. :mallard: Hope you can get some work done and kudos for doing so. :hug:

[The Lone Ranger]

In such instances, local governments often rely on private agencies to do cleanup. (That may help explain why they often discourage volunteer efforts.)

I think it might be a good idea to call the main office at Bon Secour to see what they can tell you. Even if the "official" response is something along the lines of "Don't worry about it; professionals will take care of it," there will surely be people at Bon Secour who will be very-much concerned, and who might point you organized volunteer efforts and/or give you advice on how to organize one yourself.


Best,

Michael

[LadyShea]

Well I called Fish and Wildlife to ask what they are doing to mobilize, the girl that answered acted like it was not even their concern and directed me to the regional office. Now I am pissed.

I am calling the regional director now

[viscousmemories]

The free market is providing your state with a flood of oil and all you care about is what will happen to the seabirds?

Man, there's just no pleasing some people.

[LadyShea]

Oil spill: Richard Shelby asks Coast Guard to prevent Alabama landfall | al.com (http://blog.al.com/live/2010/04/shelby_asked_coast_guard_for_h.html) On Tuesday, Louisiana State University scientist Gregory William Stone said there is no question that a "mass of oil" will wash ashore in Alabama and Mississippi within a matter of days. The slick has resulted from last week's explosion of the drilling rig Deepwater Horizon.

Today the Coast Guard announced it will set the oil on fire

Crews to set fire to oil leaking in Gulf of Mexico - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100428/ap_on_bi_ge/us_louisiana_oil_rig_explosion)
Crews geared up to set fire to oil leaking from the site of an exploded drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico on Wednesday, a last-ditch effort to get rid of it before it reaches environmentally sensitive marshlands on the coast.

[Ensign Steve]

:goatsonfire:

[Demimonde]

You know, I'm worried about the environmental impact too, but one thing about the coverage has really bugged the crap outta me. Those coal miners died and for days everyone is mourning, the media focuses on the family, interviews the unions, and the President flies out for the memorial.

11 Oil workers died in a massive explosion and everyone focuses on the sea life and hate for the oil companies. Real reform might occur for the coal miners because of the coverage of the safety issues that caused that accident. But nobody is thinking of the platform workers. And if the President goes to the Gulf at all it will be to take a pictures with sudsy seabirds not grieving families.

Okay / side rant.

[LadyShea]

I think that the early coverage focused on the workers, before they knew that it would also cause a large oil spill. They have to shut off the leak, and contain the spill before they can even begin to investigate why the explosion happened in the first place (which they don't know).

Once the continuing problem is resolved, you will see a return to the workers and the cause and the investigation and possible safety violations etc.

Gotta save who you can and put the fire out before you can investigate it for arson, ya know?

[LadyShea]

Gulf oil spill could reach shore Thursday night - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100429/ap_on_bi_ge/us_louisiana_oil_rig_explosion)
Meanwhile, Louisiana Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal declared a state of emergency and announced that BP had agreed to allow local fishermen to assist in the expected cleanup. Under the agreement, shrimpers and fishermen could be contracted by BP to help. Jindal said the state was also training prison inmates to help clean up wildlife harmed by oil slicks moving toward shore.

They set it on fire, they have booms out there, and they have known about it for days and apparently the government has equipment that can help. WHY IS IT MAKING LANDFALL?

BP underestimated the scope of the issue and/or overestimated their abilities to deal with it, and/or lied about one or both. The government response was delayed due to that misestimation and/or lies.

So much for private companies being oh so efficient.

[wei yau]

You know how it is, it'll be the same as it is always when it's clear a private company is at fault.

It was an accident. Could not be predicted. No one saw it coming. One worker screwed up.

Blah blah blah blah.

[Dingfod]

I'm not sure they'll ever know exactly what happened.

[LadyShea]

Little bit more info coming to light from some lawsuits

The suits name as defendants London-based BP Plc, which holds the lease to the offshore well; Swiss-based Transocean Ltd, owner of the Deepwater Horizon drilling platform that exploded in flames on April 20 and collapsed two days later; Halliburton Energy Services Inc, which was engaged in cementing operations of the well and well cap; and Cameron International Corp, which supplied the rig's blow-out prevention equipment that failed.

[ceptimus]

It was kind-of experimental deep drilling. Down through about a mile of water and then another few miles of rock.

Humans aren't good at messing with advances in technology without making mistakes - that's mainly how we learn, by making mistakes.

The people that granted the licence for this kind of operation, presumably the US government, should also take a share of the blame - they should have foreseen that with this kind of operation, accidents were always a likely possibility.

It's not as though we have a good track record of not spilling oil. Whether we're drilling it out of the ground, moving it around by ship or pipeline, refining it, storing it or using it - in each of these cases there is an expected accident rate. I'm sure the insurance companies have figures like, 'We expect one major spill for every 100 platform-years of production." Obviously with new technology, such as drilling in deeper water than we're used to, the risks are more uncertain and most likely higher.

[Dingfod]

On the plus side, BP made a significant oil discovery.

This same rig had drilled a 35,000 deep well last year, setting a new record.

[LadyShea]

Oh man some of the spooky Mulders are calling it eco-terrorist sabotage.

[Watser?]

That would be like blowing up a school to save the children.

[viscousmemories]

Are you mocking our foreign policy?

[Dingfod]

Free oil!

In Nigeria, the people would be out there scooping it up with buckets.

[Dingfod]

That would be like blowing up a school to save the children.Don't give them ideas.

[Dingfod]

It was a North Korean submarine attack. (http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1367.htm)

[Miisa]

I blame the boobquake.

[Watser?]

The boobquake travelled back in time to start this last week?

[Miisa]

The spread only started in earnest after the quake. It was "just" an oil rig accident until this week, now it is an environmental catastrophe!

[LadyShea]

Oil blowout device maker has $500 million in liability insurance, says it cannot predict liability | al.com (http://blog.al.com/live/2010/05/oil_blowout_device_maker_has_5.html)

I don't think 500 million will cover this

[Watser?]

Well, I blame Sarah Palin.

[Watser?]

aHA!

As an oil slick in the Gulf of Mexico grows larger by the hour, former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin continues to stick to "drill, baby, drill."

In a 30-minute speech to a Republican crowd in Kansas City Saturday, the onetime Republican vice presidential nominee dubbed the gulf spill "very tragic" but added: “I want our country to be able to trust the oil industry.”Palin promotes offshore drilling in the middle of oil spill | Raw Story (http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0503/palin-promotes-offshore-drilling-middle-oil-spill/)

Spill, baby, spill!

[teasasue]

I was under the impression the inspectors were over looking things on purpose and since they didnt do their job the equipment was faulty.


As far as continueing to drill I think we should be we need to get it right. 1st we need to get this cleaned up and stopped.
Start again and make sure its done right.

[naturalist.atheist]

YouTube- Lessons from the Exxon Valdez oil spill

YouTube- 20 years later, Alaska still poisoned from Exxon Valdex oil spill-2/2

[LadyShea]

37 million gallons of oil out there. The Gulf is well and truly fucked.

Still nothing on my beach walk today, but I know it's just a matter of time and it makes me sick.

[The Lone Ranger]

British Petroleum is currently facing more than 100 lawsuits in connection with the spill. They're requesting that all of the pre-trial issues be handled by Texas judge Lynn Hughes (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/05/26/94887/bp-wants-houston-judge-with-oil.html).

Hughes has close ties to the petroleum industry and has traveled around the world to give lectures for the American Association of Petroleum Geologists. BP has paid his travel expenses on those trips.



Can you say "blatant conflict of interest"? I knew you could.


In other news, according to NPR, workers on the oil rig have testified that BP pressured them to produce oil very quickly and in large quantities, despite warnings from on-site staff that safety procedures were inadequate and insufficiently-tested -- and that this could easily lead to an accident. Apparently, the chief engineer of the rig got into a shouting match with a BP official on the day of the explosion, because the engineer felt that BP's safety procedures were inadequate and could easily result in an accident.

Apparently, pieces of rubber from the blowout preventer were being brought up with the oil just before the explosion. That was a pretty-danged strong indicator that the blowout preventer was damaged and might not function as intended, should it be needed. Instead of allowing on-site workers to shut the rig down for a safety inspection, BP insisted that they keep on drilling.

Those were some of the claims that were being made on an NPR program I happened to catch last night.


No amount of money can make up for the destruction that this spill has caused -- and will likely continue to cause for the next several decades -- but I really hope that BP is made to suffer for this.


Just a few years ago, we had petroleum industry officials literally writing the federal regulations regarding their industry. If there's anything positive about this spill, I hope that it will be this: 1.) Maybe we'll finally get serious about reforming, strengthening, and enforcing regulatory oversight of the extraction industries. 2.) Maybe we'll finally get serious about trying to reduce our addiction to petroleum (and coal).



Cheers,

Michael

[Dingfod]

2) Dream on.

[Gonzo]

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Politics/images-2/sarah-palin-wink.jpg

[LadyShea]

I can smell the oil from my house.
Mom found oiled, washed up trash on her beach walk this morning

It's really here and this is really happening.

[Dingfod]

:frown:

[LadyShea]

Now confirmed: Oil's washing ashore at Baldwin County beaches (photos) | al.com (http://blog.al.com/live/2010/06/alabama_beaches_oil_gulf_shores.html)

http://media.al.com/live/photo/oil-comes-ashore-1b501369025ba3f0_large.jpg

[Dingfod]

Scoop it up kids, that oil is worth about 20 cents a pound, maybe more, depending on market close.

[teasasue]

I wonder how much longer till it gets to SC and NC

[LadyShea]

Mom reported oiled trash on the State Park beach at 9am. The guy said they were already monitoring that section at 9am because they knew it was coming...however they didn't close the beach or have crews out there until 1:30pm?

WTF?

[teasasue]

Mom reported oiled trash on the State Park beach at 9am. The guy said they were already monitoring that section at 9am because they knew it was coming...however they didn't close the beach or have crews out there until 1:30pm?

WTF?

that sounds like our government

[LadyShea]

No, private contractors under BP are in control of the cleanup, and the State itself should be in charge of beach closures, especially at the state park.

[Dingfod]

I wonder how much longer till it gets to SC and NCIf floated into the fastest part of Gulf Stream it would be off the Carolina shores in only about 9 or 10 days. How long it would then take to come to the coast, who knows. Look how long it took for it to go about 65-70 miles.

[teasasue]

I wonder how much longer till it gets to SC and NCIf floated into the fastest part of Gulf Stream it would be off the Carolina shores in only about 9 or 10 days. How long it would then take to come to the coast, who knows. Look how long it took for it to go about 65-70 miles.

Me and my husband were actually talking about this last night and both think it will take about 2 weeks. I think I heard on the news today that were they tried to stop it and did something to the pipe its now comming out faster. So who knows it may get here sooner than that.

[Dingfod]

A remote-operate submersible cut off the riser pipe on the top of the blowout preventer. It was feared it would increase the flow, but I'm not so sure that it did. A well going flat-out wide-open as this one has will probably fall off in production over time, eventually not having enough oomph to even get out of the well bore. The oil coming out faster would not make it get to the Carolina shores any faster, ocean currents and wind are more responsible for that.

[teasasue]

that is true but I am sure that it doesnt help either.

[Adam]

Mom reported oiled trash on the State Park beach at 9am. The guy said they were already monitoring that section at 9am because they knew it was coming...however they didn't close the beach or have crews out there until 1:30pm?

WTF?

that sounds like our government

What sounds like "our" government? Are you in Alabama? If not, I assume you meant the federal government? What do they have to do with anything LadyShea said?

[lisarea]

As far as continueing to drill I think we should be we need to get it right. 1st we need to get this cleaned up and stopped.
Start again and make sure its done right.

How would you propose making sure it's done right this time? Seems that this is the sort of thing that's been going on since we've been drilling for oil. What changes do you propose to make it different this time?

Obviously we need more government oversight, but how do you propose to administer that effectively?

[Dingfod]

Dynamite with a laserbeam. That's all I've got.

[teasasue]

Mom reported oiled trash on the State Park beach at 9am. The guy said they were already monitoring that section at 9am because they knew it was coming...however they didn't close the beach or have crews out there until 1:30pm?

WTF?

that sounds like our government

What sounds like "our" government? Are you in Alabama? If not, I assume you meant the federal government? What do they have to do with anything LadyShea said?

Yes I was speaking of the federal government and I highlighted for you what I was referring to.


As far as continueing to drill I think we should be we need to get it right. 1st we need to get this cleaned up and stopped.
Start again and make sure its done right.

How would you propose making sure it's done right this time? Seems that this is the sort of thing that's been going on since we've been drilling for oil. What changes do you propose to make it different this time?

Obviously we need more government oversight, but how do you propose to administer that effectively?

Sorry but since I dont work for the oil company's I cant help you with that. So you may want to check with them how to do it better next time.

I think we would be making a huge mistake if we don't try to drill and help this country out. Simply for the fact that with the last war (or whatever they want to call it) we had break out they tried to stop the oil and gas and things from coming in to this country. We right now do not have the supplies to support all of this country there for we have to go outside for it. If you want to base your trust in the fact that they will not shut us off the next time a "war" or "occurrence" happens then that is fine. Not everyone is that trust worthy.

As far as asking me about things that I have not went to school for and studied to make my field of expertise I think you and I both know that you were wasting your time. Sorry

[lisarea]

I don't expect you to know off the top of your head how to manage the cleanup or how to prevent further disasters such as this one or any previous, similar ones.

What I do expect you to explain is why your kneejerk reaction seems to be to blame the government, and absolve the oil companies? Did you miss where Lady Shea explained to you that it was not the federal government screwing up the efforts on the beach?

And I don't know how you jumped to such odd conclusions from what I posted, but it's interesting that you'd lecture me on not being so trusting:

If you want to base your trust in the fact that they will not shut us off the next time a "war" or "occurrence" happens then that is fine. Not everyone is that trust worthy.

You don't have to understand oil drilling technologies and procedures to recognize the fact that the oil companies are either unable or unwilling to take necessary measures to prevent accidents such as this. So what administrative changes do you think makes it possible for oil drilling to be done more safely, and who should be tasked with ensuring that those changes are implemented correctly?

[teasasue]

I don't expect you to know off the top of your head how to manage the cleanup or how to prevent further disasters such as this one or any previous, similar ones.

What I do expect you to explain is why your kneejerk reaction seems to be to blame the government, and absolve the oil companies? Did you miss where Lady Shea explained to you that it was not the federal government screwing up the efforts on the beach?

And I don't know how you jumped to such odd conclusions from what I posted, but it's interesting that you'd lecture me on not being so trusting:

If you want to base your trust in the fact that they will not shut us off the next time a "war" or "occurrence" happens then that is fine. Not everyone is that trust worthy.

You don't have to understand oil drilling technologies and procedures to recognize the fact that the oil companies are either unable or unwilling to take necessary measures to prevent accidents such as this. So what administrative changes do you think makes it possible for oil drilling to be done more safely, and who should be tasked with ensuring that those changes are implemented correctly?


ok I think you miss understood me. I never once blamed the government for the oil spill, I made a comment to her post about how long it took someone to get something done, but I was not blaming the government. From what I know it was actually the inspectors that didn't do their job from the beginning and since they didn't check the equipment it malfunctioned.

as to your last statement, its the inspectors job to make sure things are run properly. If they are not doing their job properly then they need to get someone that will.

Sorry for any misunderstandings that we may have had, that was not my intention nor do I think it was yours, but I think we both had some.

[LadyShea]

The response seems to be a clusterfuck due to the age old problem of nobody knows where to start, or who is supposed to do what, or when. At least F&W has a single number to call for oiled wildlife reporting and that seems to be an organized effort.

The rest of it...shit. BP has had contractors on the ground here for 2 weeks. Just 2 weeks ago there were 6 of them on the state park beach driving around and picking up like a single bag of trash. No reason for it to take 1.5 hours to get crews on that beach this afternoon.

I don't care who the first responders are, state, Fed, or contractors but someone needs to take the lead here.

[Adam]

Mom reported oiled trash on the State Park beach at 9am. The guy said they were already monitoring that section at 9am because they knew it was coming...however they didn't close the beach or have crews out there until 1:30pm?

WTF?

that sounds like our government

What sounds like "our" government? Are you in Alabama? If not, I assume you meant the federal government? What do they have to do with anything LadyShea said?

Yes I was speaking of the federal government and I highlighted for you what I was referring to.

You know that the federal government is not in charge of the State Park beach, though, right?

[teasasue]

lol yes I do know that that is the state, or the park rangers. Unless it is a federal park the government wouldn't need to come unless they were called.

[Dingfod]

Quick! Somebody come up with a machine to clean beaches!

[teasasue]

Quick! Somebody come up with a machine to clean beaches!

I guess if you ask nicely I could use my superman senses on it. :superfly:

[Dingfod]

Superman could just blast it with his heat vision, then blow the byproducts into space.

[teasasue]

exactly :shoopdawhoop:

[Pinecone]

Quick! Somebody come up with a machine to clean beaches!

How about everyone who voted for Bush/Cheney goes down there and licks it up?

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2010/06/prelude_cheney_katrina.html

[Dingfod]

BP reports producing 10,500 barrels of oil and flaring 22 million cubic feet of gas via the inverted funnel. The flow is being stepped up gradually so as to not lift the cap off the BOP.

[lisarea]

I hadn't seen this before, but this is stupid enough that it'd be funny if this sort of thing didn't totally work all the time:

BP tries to mislead you with graphs (http://flowingdata.com/2010/05/26/bp-tries-to-mislead-you-with-graphs/)

[Dingfod]

That is total bullshit by someone that doesn't know what they're talking about, the "tube" has not been in place since May 16th. It just got installed Friday, two days ago. The only oil collecting they've been able to do before that was via the skimmers on the surface. The other one they tried back in May didn't work because of methane hydrate freezes.

Edit: FAIL, didn't notice the date on the article was May 24. Doesn't change the tube part being bullshit.

[JoeP]

http://www.goominet.com/uploads/tx_cenostripviewer/w108_oil.jpg

http://www.gppcomic.com/comics/2010-06-04-gulf.gif

[MonCapitan2002]

exactly :shoopdawhoop:
I almost hear the sound effects for that smilie in my mind.

Anyhow, I it looks like the gulf coast's ecosystem is totally fucked for the next few decades. I think BP should be made to suffer horribly for this. I am thinking the complete dissolution of the company along with lifetime prison sentences for all of the upper management.

Ideally, they should be sent to the harshest prisons on the planet.

[teasasue]

What about the inspectors that didnt do their jobs in the first place?

[Adam]

Raped with rusty crowbars, IMO.

[LadyShea]

http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/gallery/files/2/8/oil.jpg

This was taken Saturday morning on our walk for Turtle nests. Apparently the cleanup crews have been told to hold off until the beach has been walked.

When we got done we noted cleanup people mustering in the parking lot, and the other turtle walkers finishing up, so were pleased to see a response.

However, I read this this morning

Nearby, workers cleaning sand at a state park finished their work and left their refuse on the beach in the way of the incoming tide.

"Waves are washing over plastic bags filled with tar and oil. It's crazy," said Mike Reynolds, a real estate agent and director of Share The Beach, a turtle conservation group.
Gulf Oil Spill: The Long Road Ahead - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/07/national/main6556352.shtml)

They left the bags sitting within the tideline? WTF?

[Adam]

I guess that means that either the bags are light enough so that they could be pulled out to sea or else they're not sealed?

[LadyShea]

When we clean up the beach, whether Coastal Cleanup day or after a hurricane or just as good citizens, we move heavy trash and debris beyond the high tide line, and then trucks pick it up. On Friday morning (before the oil made landfall) my mom found a whole television in the water covered in barnacles. She had some fisherman help her pull it out, for the trucks to pick up.

So even if they were relatively heavy and sealed, chances are some could make it back out to the water. Why not put the bags higher up and have a truck collect them like every other beach cleanup? It's just stupid, and it means nobody with any beach cleanup experience is on those crews, or their training is incomplete, or they are unsupervised

[1Samuel8]

You don't have to understand oil drilling technologies and procedures to recognize the fact that the oil companies are either unable or unwilling to take necessary measures to prevent accidents such as this. So what administrative changes do you think makes it possible for oil drilling to be done more safely, and who should be tasked with ensuring that those changes are implemented correctly? I can recommend one: Publicly advertize the names, addresses and property holdings of every single person who operates the BP company. Identify their family members and beneficiaries too. Make them look behind their backs every where they go.

[Watser?]

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/4320458/sn/98188779/name/bp+spill+sign.jpg

[LadyShea]

BP plans to replace oil spill cap with larger device next month | al.com (http://blog.al.com/live/2010/06/bp_plans_to_replace_oil_spill.html)

http://media.al.com/live/photo/oil-spill-gulf-shores-june-7-2010jpg-59c5ccd864e2f9f8_large.jpg

[Dingfod]

You don't have to understand oil drilling technologies and procedures to recognize the fact that the oil companies are either unable or unwilling to take necessary measures to prevent accidents such as this. So what administrative changes do you think makes it possible for oil drilling to be done more safely, and who should be tasked with ensuring that those changes are implemented correctly? I can recommend one: Publicly advertize the names, addresses and property holdings of every single person who operates the BP company. Identify their family members and beneficiaries too. Make them look behind their backs every where they go.For what? Are you threatening them? Most of them are just trying to make a living just like everyone else. Most of them had nothing to do with this incident. Most of them have nothing to do with offshore drilling. Most of them are probably quite decent folk. The majority of them are probably Christians, but don't hold that against them. You are a sick fuck, Sam1am.

[1Samuel8]

Most of them are just trying to make a living just like everyone else. Most of them had nothing to do with this incident. Most of them have nothing to do with offshore drilling. No, not like everyone else. They shirk responsibility for their actions. They need people like you to ignore their shirking. Keep it up.

[Sock Puppet]

Unlike the brave stand of calling for someone else to do violence to them.

[LadyShea]

So it seems a lot of the confusion over who should do what, how, and when is caused by the Oil Pollution Act of 1990

If this law is changed, can it made retro to this spill? Officials in the currently affected states have found technology and equipment for beach cleanup that seems to work better than BP's rednecks with shovels program, but they can't get BP on the horn to write the checks for it

At least one LA Parish guy, on Anderson Cooper last night, said he req'd the expenses out and is moving forward on the assumption that BP will be made to pay. I don't think Alabama or Mississippi can float that stuff though

[livius drusus]

Massive Flow Of Bullshit Continues To Gush From BP Headquarters (http://www.theonion.com/articles/massive-flow-of-bullshit-continues-to-gush-from-bp,17564/)

Though no one knows exactly how much of the dangerous bullshit is currently gushing from BP headquarters, estimates put the number at somewhere between 25,000 and 70,000 words a day.

"We're looking at a truly staggering load of shit here," said Rebecca Palmer, an environmental scientist at the University of Georgia, who claimed that only BP has the ability to stem the flow of bullshit and plug it at its source. "And this is just the beginning—we're only seeing the surface-level bullshit. It could be years before we sift through it all and figure out just how deep this bullshit goes."

:knowyouronions:

[Dingfod]

Most of them are just trying to make a living just like everyone else. Most of them had nothing to do with this incident. Most of them have nothing to do with offshore drilling. No, not like everyone else. They shirk responsibility for their actions. They need people like you to ignore their shirking. Keep it up.Rusty crowbar, ass. Enjoy.

[Dingfod]

Satellite images lead the discovery of another platform near Deepwater Horizon leaking oil since April 30th. (http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/06/another_gulf_oil_spill_well_ne.html) No report of it was made until Skytruth reported it on May 15th. Ocean Saratoga, owned by Diamond Offshore, was contracted to plug a leak a well platform toppled by Hurricane Ivan in 2004 in 500 feet of water. I was just wondering yesterday that if another company had an oil leak in the area would they report it? I guess I got my answer.

[ceptimus]

Americans might not realise that all the BP bashing doesn't just affect the rich plutocrats who run the company. These rich men are unlikely to go to jail - the worst that is likely to happen to them is that they will be forced to retire from their jobs and will be able to live out the rest of their lives as millionaires.

Ordinary people in the UK are not so lucky - a substantial portion of their pension revenues is invested in BP - this is not as a result of normal people choosing to buy BP shares - the pension fund managers have all done that without any guidance or input from the pension holders. BP has, in the past, been seen as a safe investment with a good financial track record.

Now obviously BP should be held responsible for their actions and should be made to pay for their mistakes/errors/greed/stupidity/...

Would President Obama and others be bashing an American oil company that had made these same errors this hard?

It seems that there is an element of scapegoating - the repeated use of the company's previous name, 'British Petroleum' instead of the correct name 'BP' (it changed in 2000) is significant. Perhaps there is an element of heaping blame on the old imperial nation for political reasons and to distract attention from the poor regulation of ALL the companies involved in this accident and oil drilling in general.

The people of Britain have no love for big greedy corporations, but are nethertheless concerned when political rhetoric erodes their savings and pensions.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/pension-funds-will-be-hit-by-ban-on-bp-dividend-payouts-14839266.html

[LadyShea]

UK, welcome to American Retirement Planning. We have had this happen so many times, I can't even remember them all. MCI and Enron come to mind.

[livius drusus]

What exactly does this bashing consist of? Calling BP British Petroleum? Because that's hardly some huge insult sure to arouse memories of 1776. As far as I can tell, Obama and his administration have treated BP pretty much exactly as they'd have treated a US oil corporation which cut corners on safety, got 11 people killed and fucked the Gulf hard up the asshole: with kid gloves.

[ceptimus]

If he is treating BP the same as he would a US oil corporation, then fair enough.

The way it's been reported over here is that BP are perhaps being treated differently to other oil corporations - and part of the reason for that is to deflect blame away from US government, regulators and companies that were also involved in the accident.

It seems clear to everyone that BP were the most guilty party; its share price would obviously have fallen due to lost production, the cost of the clean up and loss of its reputation.

It's being suggested that the share price is taking an additional hit due to the attitude of President Obama - that he was slow to react initially and is now over-reacting to try to save face in a way that he might not against a non-British company.

Like I said, I don't know if that's true or not. But that's the way some UK politicians and news organisations are beginning to spin it.

[Dingfod]

Welcome to my world, BP-dependent pension plan participants, my company stock is still only worth about 30% of what it was worth in 2000, when the mean old fuckers at Moody's downrated the company's credit rating even though there was no danger of the company defaulting. I shouldn't complain though, it's way up from it's lowest point, about 20 times higher.

[LadyShea]

Perhaps there is an element of heaping blame on the old imperial nation for political reasons

I am not sure about other former British colonies, but I have never met an American that holds anti-British sentiments based on past imperialism. Maybe it's too far past or something.

BP is getting the blame because it is a private corporation and this disaster affects our public, and that simple fact is both confusing and hindering the response and clean up efforts. We have policies in place for dealing with natural disasters, and when those efforts fail we know who to blame...but man made disasters are a different story, mostly due to not knowing exactly who pays for what and who should be doing what and who should take the hit.

If this had been a Middle Eastern oil company, or maybe Citgo, widespread American hatred of brown people and what they see as Communist dictators would come out to play in a big way, and they would be calling for outright war or some shit if I know my less intelligent countrymen.

[livius drusus]

I think the administration has ramped up the tough talk as the spill keeps getting worse, but I really don't see an anti-British element. Like Shea says, if anything the fact that BP is a British company has insulated it from popular wrath and warmongering. I haven't heard any shittalk at all about British imperial history, or even about that one time they burned the White House. (The War of 1812 gets no respect, poor thing.)

[Dingfod]

I know that I scarcely think of BP as British anyway, to me, they're the same old Amoco folks I dealt with before their merger. I often slip up and call them Amoco now and then.

[LadyShea]

Also, I can see a desire to deflect criticism on the part of the UK investment firms for putting the majority of eggs into BPs basket, rather than offering more diversified portfolios. Sort of a "We weren't wrong to invest so heavily in BP, and the US's criticism is causing the problems, not the disaster itself"

As long as this continues, and it seems to be worsening over time rather than getting better, all of our eyes are in serious danger from the pointing fingers.

If I was BP I would be talking about the partner firms in that rig, such as Halliburton, every time I opened my mouth

[ChuckF]

Yeah, there have been murmurings about "foreign oil companies," but it seems like these mostly come from the people who have been pushing offshore oil drilling as a solution to All of America's Problems. Like Sarah Palin. I don't think it reflects any genuine anti-British sentiment, but is rather a handy way to try to squirm away from constant and vocal support for exactly the kind of operation that led directly to this disaster.

And it has been mostly ignored or laughed off, because it is stupid.

I think it's hard for most Americans to even think of BP as a "British" company, notwithstanding the name. There are BP-branded (not "British Petroleum-branded") gas stations all over the place here. Yeah, the twat who runs the company is British, but he's still a twat, and that is the main thing. BP is like Exxon-Mobil or Shell other gigantic multinational oil companies. They may be technically "foreign," but their presence in the US is so pervasive, and their marketing so competent, that most people don't even know, think about, or care that they are not strictly American-owned. (As if any massive multinational is strictly American-owned, or even gives a shit about the nationality of its stakeholders.)

Mark Mardell (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/) had a thing on the the "anti-British" narrative that the UK media has started pushing. He basically says that he hasn't really observed it. I haven't either.

[Dingfod]

I note there has been little mention in the press of Anadarko Petroleum, an Oklahoma City based company, which owns as much as 25% of the Deepwater Horizon well. Oklahoma City based Devon Energy is shedding all of its offshore production, its Gulf assets were sold to BP for $1.05 Billion.

[The Lone Ranger]

My impression is that the anger I hear directed against BP is typically, if anything, less intense than the anger directed against Exxon during and after the Exxon Valdez spill. I know people who still won't shop at Exxon because of it.

That might be due to the different corporations' responses to the spill, in part. BP, to its credit, has taken responsibility for the spill and is trying to fix things. Back during the Exxon Valdez incident, Exxon's initial action, if memory serves, was to deny any responsibility and to instead blame it all on Captain Hazelwood. [Not that Hazelwood wasn't directly responsible, but Exxon was far from blameless in the incident, as it turned out.]

Cheers,

Michael

[ceptimus]

BBC News - BP criticism not about nationality, says Obama (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/politics/10300082.stm)

[LadyShea]

An oil spill survival story: The (not so) little turtle that could | al.com (http://blog.al.com/live/2010/06/an_oil_spill_survival_story_th.html)

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2010/06/gulf-oil-spill-sea-turtle-swims-through-oil-to-nest-on-alabama-beach.html

[Dingfod]

Oil-eating fungi. (http://www.fungi.com/mycotech/petroleum_problem.html)

[fragment]

BP's response plan apparently had a few small problems:

Among the glaring errors in the report: A professor is listed in BP's 2009 response plan for a Gulf of Mexico oil spill as a national wildlife expert. He died in 2005.

The plan lists cold-water marine mammals including walruses, sea otters, sea lions and seals as "sensitive biological resources." None of those animals live anywhere near the Gulf.

...

In the spill scenarios detailed in the documents, fish, marine mammals and birds escape serious harm; beaches remain pristine; water quality is only a temporary problem. And those are the projections for a leak about 10 times worse than what has been calculated for the ongoing disaster.

The Associated Press: AP IMPACT: BP spill response plans severely flawed (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j5wrBdUcklmSa7eViGBpO0t8g1xQD9G82F6O0)

[LadyShea]

BP also is still trying to find additional sand-sifting machines, which are capable of cleaning long areas of beach in minutes rather than the hours it takes to do the work by hand. The company didn't even know they existed until Gulf Shores Mayor Robert Craft recently showed off one operated by the city.Supply shortages slowing Gulf oil spill cleanup - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100615/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gulf_oil_spill_supply_shortages)
You have got to be fucking kidding me.

[Watser?]

It says here now that Dutch company Boskalis (a silt clearance company) will be building a sand barrier to the south of New Orleans to protect the swamps. It will be 75 km long (46.6 miles) and 1.8 meters high (6 foot) it says.

Also says that the Dutch govt has sent 'sweeping arms' to clear oil but that they are not being used, Boskalis will help with that too.

[Dingfod]

BP's Deepwater Horizon isn't the biggest oil spill in United States history (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-then-20100613,0,4057169.story), not yet anyway. 1910 Kern County, California oil well blowout spewed 378 million gallons of oil over 17 months. The driller on that well was nicknamed Dry Hole Charlie before that fateful well came in. And the tourism industry along the Gulf Coast needs to adapt, back in the day, the Lakeview well became a tourist attraction, with trainloads of people coming to see the disaster in action. It never did get plugged by the works of man, it finally caved in on itself, stopping the flow.

Oh, and Dry Hole Charlie went on to live up to his nick, drilling dry hole after dry hole.

[LadyShea]

Kern County is in the middle of the Mojave, and the desert doesn't send oil hundreds of miles in all directions. So, though there may have been more oil, I should think the impact would have been very localized.


Sea creatures flee oil spill, gather near shore - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100616/ap_on_re_us/us_gulf_oil_spill_marine_life_2)

Marine scientists studying the effects of the BP disaster are seeing some strange — and troubling — phenomena.

Fish and other wildlife are fleeing the oil out in the Gulf and clustering in cleaner waters along the coast. But that is not the hopeful sign it might appear to be, researchers say.

The animals' presence close to shore means their usual habitat is badly polluted, and the crowding could result in mass die-offs as fish run out of oxygen. Also, the animals could easily get devoured by predators.

"A parallel would be: Why are the wildlife running to the edge of a forest on fire? There will be a lot of fish, sharks, turtles trying to get out of this water they detect is not suitable," said Larry Crowder, a Duke University marine biologist.

It's like an oil induced Jubilee, very troubling :(

[Watser?]

:(

[Dingfod]

Kern County is in the middle of the Mojave, and the desert doesn't send oil hundreds of miles in all directions. So, though there may have been more oil, I should think the impact would have been very localized.You wetlanders are all the same, think the desert is a good place to dump your shit. Bah! *wanders off with donkey and pickaxe*

[LadyShea]

My parents are from Kern County, I still have blood kin oozing all over that place.

[Dingfod]

And the place stinks of oil, does it not?

[LadyShea]

Not that I remember. I am sure that oil leak was locally devastating, though.

[Cliche Guevara]

It could get a lot worse yet, according to this article. :sadcheer:

Is the BP gusher unstoppable? http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25755.htm

"To those of us outside the real inside loop, yet still fairly knowledgeable, [the failure of Top Kill] was a major confirmation of what many feared. That the system below the sea floor has serious failures of varying magnitude in the complicated chain, and it is breaking down and it will continue to.

"What does this mean?

"It means they will never cap the gusher after the wellhead. They cannot...the more they try and restrict the oil gushing out the bop?...the more it will transfer to the leaks below. Just like a leaky garden hose with a nozzle on it. When you open up the nozzle?...it doesn't leak so bad, you close the nozzle?...it leaks real bad, same dynamics. It is why they sawed the riser off...or tried to anyway...but they clipped it off, to relieve pressure on the leaks "down hole". I'm sure there was a bit of panic time after they crimp/pinched off the large riser pipe and the Diamond wire saw got stuck and failed...because that crimp diverted pressure and flow to the rupture down below.

"Contrary to what most of us would think as logical to stop the oil mess, actually opening up the gushing well and making it gush more became direction BP took after confirming that there was a leak. In fact if you note their actions, that should become clear. They have shifted from stopping or restricting the gusher to opening it up and catching it. This only makes sense if they want to relieve pressure at the leak hidden down below the seabed.....and that sort of leak is one of the most dangerous and potentially damaging kind of leak there could be. It is also inaccessible which compounds our problems. There is no way to stop that leak from above, all they can do is relieve the pressure on it and the only way to do that right now is to open up the nozzle above and gush more oil into the gulf and hopefully catch it, which they have done, they just neglected to tell us why


The link in the article to the original info source is full of additional links and information. How close to the truth it all is, I don;t know. Perhaps the FF scientists and engineers can weigh in with some wisdoms of their own on this guy's claims?

[Cliche Guevara]

If he is treating BP the same as he would a US oil corporation, then fair enough.

It pretty much is one. BP's largest shareholder is JPMorgan Chase.

[LadyShea]

This only makes sense if they want to relieve pressure at the leak hidden down below the seabed.....and that sort of leak is one of the most dangerous and potentially damaging kind of leak there could be. It is also inaccessible which compounds our problems. There is no way to stop that leak from above, all they can do is relieve the pressure on it and the only way to do that right now is to open up the nozzle above and gush more oil into the gulf and hopefully catch it, which they have done, they just neglected to tell us why

I'm an FF business person, and my hypothesis as to why would be: BP wants the oil from that deposit, moreso now as they have so much money to recover, so capturing it is better than stopping it.

I may be wrong as well.

Oh and where the hell have you been Pets, I have missed you.

In other oil spill news, they switched the clean up crews to overnight shifts, to avoid the heat related 20-minutes-on-40-minutes-off rule, and failed to consider that loggerheads nest at night. Before they started that, they had been waiting for the all clear on turtle patrols in the mornings.

Someone alerted them to the fact that they were violating law and facing huge fines by messing with the nesting grounds without a patrol clearing the way. So, they put some of the sea turtle volunteers on the payroll, since we have the training and Federal licensing needed to work with the nests. Hubby will be working overnights for the next few months, driving an ATV up and down the beach and giving the all clear for workers to proceed, or stopping work to locate, stake out, and/or move any nests.

[The Lone Ranger]

That it might not actually be possible to stop the gusher(s) is precisely what some people have been fearing for awhile now. It may well be the case that the only thing that will eventually stop the oil release is collapse of the overlying strata and/or sufficient depletion of the local oil reservoir.


That B.P. is being less than totally honest about the magnitude of the release seems to be a given. From the beginning, outside experts have insisted that the amount of oil and gas being released was much more than B.P.'s official estimates. And the outside experts were quickly proved to be correct.

And according to a report on NPR yesterday, B.P. had high-definition cameras down there from the beginning, and were well-aware that their "estimates" were much too low. The footage released to the news media and to outside experts was from low-definition cameras, which made it much more difficult for outsiders to check B.P.'s numbers.


The media, of course, simply took B.P.'s word for the size of the spill. Less forgivably, so did the government.



This is not exactly unprecedented. Back in 1989, Exxon "estimated" that the Exxon Valdez had spilled 10.8 million gallons of oil into Prince William Sound. The press accepted that number without question, and that remains the "official" figure. But two different investigations conducted afterwards took the simple step of comparing the amount of oil that had been in the tanker before the spill (approximately 50 million gallons) and the amount that remained in the tanker after the spill (approximately 19 million gallons) and -- via simple mathematics -- showed that, in reality, there must have been at least 30 million or so gallons spilled.

Yet the official estimate is still nearly three times smaller than what was almost certainly the actual size of the spill.




I remain hopeful that the Gulf Spill will act as a sort of wake-up call regarding the need to reduce our dependence on oil, but it seems a forlorn hope. Reportedly, Obama's decision to put a temporary moratorium on new offshore drilling is very unpopular in Louisiana. Several groups are already putting together lawsuits against the moratorium.


Cheers,

Michael

[Dingfod]

To be fair, more than 10% of the oil from the Exxon Valdez was recovered by skimmers, meaning the spill was likely in the neighborhood of 25 million gallons, not over 30.

[fragment]

Has this been posted yet?

Video: An Energy-Independent Future | The Daily Show | Comedy Central (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-june-16-2010/an-energy-independent-future)

[LadyShea]

TLR, or anyone. What are, or were the long term effects of the Ixtoc spill of 79? As that was also huge (140 mil gallons) and also in the Gulf, and also in turtle nesting and dolphin heavy areas (though I don't know about the estuaries or wetlands), looking at that 30 years later may give us a good idea of what to expect over the coming years (or decades)

One source I read said that little investigation or study went into it at all, but I don't hear about it today...maybe this won't be as bad as I fear (which is the Gulf being a Dead Sea)

[LadyShea]

This is a pretty sobering video showing that the bait fish are heading into the shallows looking for oxygen, the sharks are following them in, there is oil on the bottom. The last shot of the oil soaked American Flag underwater almost made me puke

This is at Bon Secour National Wildlife Refuge. It should be noted that the clean up contractors only got Federal permits YESTERDAY to work the preserve, so what is shown in the video was not a serious or full crew clean up effort.

Lots of sharks, lots of oil seen off Bon Secour (with video) | al.com (http://blog.al.com/live/2010/06/lots_of_sharks_and_lots_of_oil.html)

In good news, Dh has worked overnight as a turtle spotter three nights in a row, and two of those nights spotters saw the Mama turtles and were able to get the equipment shut down without disturbing them or unknowingly driving over crawls and nests. The nests were safely moved to higher ground.

All identified nests will be dug up day 50, and the eggs airlifted to Cape Canaveral for completion of incubation, tagging, and releasing the hatchlings. They seem to be unsure what that will do to the turtles natural state of returning to the beach they were born on to lay eggs themselves....TLR, it seems they don't know how they mark the location? They are taking sand from the nest along with them to Florida just in case.

[The Lone Ranger]

The good news is that the Ixtoc spill in 1979 has had fewer long-term effects than might have been expected. Most of the areas that were affected seem to have recovered pretty well.

I say "seem" because there have been few opportunities to do any substantial studies to find out if that's true. In fact, I was listening to an interview with a marine biologist just a couple of days ago in which he complained about how, after the spill was officially "over," virtually everyone lost interest in it and its effects. As a result, no one has been able to get funding to do any sort of long-term studies to find out the spill's long-term effects on the affected ecosystems.


What studies have been done (mostly short-term studies, so we're talking more like anecdotal evidence than serious investigations) suggest that, in the warm waters of the Gulf, bacteria have done a good job of cleaning up the oil over the past 30 years, and the local ecosystems have largely recovered.

An important caveat: the Ixtoc spill mostly affected sandy beaches, which are relatively easily cleaned. Even in the absence of human cleaners, wave action and currents will help clean and replace the sand on sandy beaches. And in the warm Gulf waters, bacteria can break down the oil (eventually) as it is washed out to sea.



Unfortunately, the impact of oil on marshes and coastal wetlands -- where that sort of wave action doesn't cause constant cleaning and replacement of the substrate -- is likely to be far worse.

For what it's worth, though, the current spill occupies only a relatively small portion of the Gulf. So as bad (and potentially long-lasting) as the local effects are and will be, there's no real danger of it turning the entire Gulf into a dead zone. Not unless it goes on for quite a lot longer and spills a lot more oil into the Gulf.



No one knows exactly how sea turtles navigate and return to their natal beaches. There's some evidence that they use the Earth's magnetic field to help them find and return to the beaches on which they were hatched. That may be part of it, but the bulk of the evidence suggests that they "imprint" on the distinct chemical cues of their natal beaches, and so essentially rely on their sense of smell to find their way back. So, I'd say that taking as much beach sand as possible would be a good idea, so that, when it comes time for the females to return and lay eggs, they will, hopefully, home in on the scent of their home beaches.

I'm still worried that they might have trouble getting "home" again. If nothing else, because they'll be receiving conflicting cues when trying to find "home." One possibility, which wouldn't be so bad, I suppose, (comparatively speaking) is that the displaced turtles will return to Cape Canaveral beaches instead of Bon Secour. This sort of thing has been done before: moving eggs from where they were laid to someplace else -- and has proved successful in establishing new nesting beaches.

In a worst-case scenario, this tactic might possibly be used to re-establish turtle nesting sites at Bon Secour in the future.


Cheers,

Michael

[LadyShea]

They are moving all identified Alabama nests, that's over 800 eggs so far. Seems like a good thing and gives me hope :) I don't know what, if anything they do in the Panhandle of Florida. I don't think they have a program like we have here.

Oh another weird thing. This year is the first time, in 10 years that Share the Beach has been running, that a turtle nest has been found and marked on Dauphin Island. Dunno if it was the spill and she just nested the first place she came to, or if there were nests there 20+ years ago and so we may have more mamas coming home there or what.

[LadyShea]

More evidence that nobody knows what they hell they are doing. I got these pics in an email of Pensacola Beach.
http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/gallery/files/2/8/pensbeach2_thumb.jpg (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/gallery/showimage.php?i=6912&c=5)
http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/gallery/files/2/8/pensbeach1_thumb.jpg (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/gallery/showimage.php?i=6911&c=5)
The person that took the pics is quoted as saying:

they say they cannot bring in machinery to clean it up because the machinery is too heavy and will push the oil down into the sand.

That beach is directly adjacent to Alabama beaches, where they are using machinery every single night and the beaches look pretty darn clean within a day of getting slimed (though the white sand is stained kinda tan, supposedly they will even be able to fix that). The beaches are clean enough for the turtles to come in and dig and lay eggs right behind the equipment. In fact, they have ordered I think 8 more machines for Alabama, yet our neighbor is doing what? Letting it sit?

The communication and interplay between local, state, and Federal authorities, and BP officials, is apparently FUBAR. If it works here, it will work across the imaginary line in the sand yet nobody has shared with Florida what works, what doesn't and how best to tackle it?

[teasasue]

More evidence that nobody knows what they hell they are doing. I got these pics in an email of Pensacola Beach.
http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/gallery/files/2/8/pensbeach2_thumb.jpg (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/gallery/showimage.php?i=6912&c=5)
http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/gallery/files/2/8/pensbeach1_thumb.jpg (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/gallery/showimage.php?i=6911&c=5)
The person that took the pics is quoted as saying:

they say they cannot bring in machinery to clean it up because the machinery is too heavy and will push the oil down into the sand.

That beach is directly adjacent to Alabama beaches, where they are using machinery every single night and the beaches look pretty darn clean within a day of getting slimed (though the white sand is stained kinda tan, supposedly they will even be able to fix that). The beaches are clean enough for the turtles to come in and dig and lay eggs right behind the equipment. In fact, they have ordered I think 8 more machines for Alabama, yet our neighbor is doing what? Letting it sit?

The communication and interplay between local, state, and Federal authorities, and BP officials, is apparently FUBAR. If it works here, it will work across the imaginary line in the sand yet nobody has shared with Florida what works, what doesn't and how best to tackle it?

It could just be that state not wanting to spend the $$ to get the machines there to get it cleaned, or it could be just laziness.

[LadyShea]

BP is paying for all equipment and the workers.

[teasasue]

BP is paying for all equipment and the workers.

well then they shouldn't really have an excuse for not cleaning it up other then laziness, and if that is the case they need to get over it.

[LadyShea]

Laziness on who's part exactly?

My complaint is that there doesn't seem to be enough sharing of information/communication.

In both AL and LA, BP has responded to the locals demands. For example the mayor of Gulf Shores demonstrated the sand cleaning equipment -already in use for trash- worked with the oil, so they told BP they wanted more and 5 more were acquired immediately. Governor Riley told the contracted companies that they would lose the permits to work in the state unless they used Alabama workers, so they shipped all the out of state workers out and hired locally. In LA one Parish President located a kind of vacuum that worked efficiently and quickly in small, delicate areas like the marshes, and made BP pay for them.

I suppose you could say the State and local governments of FL are lazy, but I don't know if there is evidence for that. I think they don't know what to do.

[teasasue]

Laziness on who's part exactly?

My complaint is that there doesn't seem to be enough sharing of information/communication.

In both AL and LA, BP has responded to the locals demands. For example the mayor of Gulf Shores demonstrated the sand cleaning equipment -already in use for trash- worked with the oil, so they told BP they wanted more and 5 more were acquired immediately. Governor Riley told the contracted companies that they would lose the permits to work in the state unless they used Alabama workers, so they shipped all the out of state workers out and hired locally. In LA one Parish President located a kind of vacuum that worked efficiently and quickly in small, delicate areas like the marshes, and made BP pay for them.

I suppose you could say the State and local governments of FL are lazy, but I don't know if there is evidence for that. I think they don't know what to do.

I dont know because I have not really been following it that closely but it doesnt make sense for it to work in some states and not others. As for them not knowing what to do that could be correct but it would just make sense if they followed the other states that are able to get it cleaned.

[Shake]

Quick! Somebody come up with a machine to clean beaches!

Or maybe just use existing machines to clean it up (http://earth2tech.com/2010/06/14/can-kevin-costners-centrifuges-help-clean-up-the-gulf/) before it gets to the beaches!

[The Lone Ranger]

But so far, Costner hasn’t had gotten regulators to approve the device, despite some 45 attempts to do so, he told the House committee. “In order to receive approval, technologies must be tested on actual spills, but the agencies charged with approval will not deploy untested equipment in a spill scenario,” he said in his prepared testimony. “We were dealing with a classic and very unfortunate example of a Catch 22.” Perhaps the unfolding disaster in the Gulf of Mexico could give the technology a chance to prove its claims

Oh, for crying out loud, it's a centrifuge! It can't possibly make the situation worse in any way!

So set a few of 'em up and let's see how well they work already!

[LadyShea]

This video from BP's website shows the operations my husband is working on as a turtle monitor, he isn't in it because he was working on the other side of the beach, but I thought you might want to see

Beach Cleanup Operations at Night - 14 July 2010 (http://bp.concerts.com/gom/nightops_beachcleanup_070910.htm)

ETA On second viewing, he may be the guy walking up at the back of the group- all wearing the lime green T-Shirts- in the second shot of that meeting

Here's an NPR story on moving the eggs
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128543422

[Ronin]

I'm just back from New Orleans and wanted to share this message ~

Sorry Ain't Enough No More (http://shamarrallen.com/)

[F-X]

Since they announced they plugged it, ever body stopped caring.

[LadyShea]

Local officials aren't allowing them to stop caring. We still have people here cleaning and such.

[Ronin]

Same here in Mississippi, LadyShea.

Crabs are turning up with black gills and the shrimpers aren't reporting the same observations as the BP backed scientists.

I hear a Greenpeace ship (http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/news/Blogs/makingwaves/greenpeace-ship-arctic-sunrise-to-perform-ind/blog/12967) is heading into the area to do some independent research, however, so there is still that.

[The Lone Ranger]

BP has had a horrible track record in the U.S., and I wouldn't take his or her word for it if a BP official declared that the sky is blue. Not only has BP has shown utter contempt for safety and environmental regulations, it has a well-established record of obfuscation and outright lying.

According to The Center for Public Integrity (http://www.publicintegrity.org/articles/entry/2085/), just two BP refineries have accounted for 97% of all the "flagrant violations" discovered in the refining industry by government regulators in the past 3 years.

OSHA declared most of BP's violations as "egregious willful" violations. Between June 2007 and February 2010, BP received 862 citations, of which 760 were classified as "egregious willful" violations.

For comparison, Exxon-Mobil received -- 1 such citation. Say what you will about Exxon, after the Exxon Valdez disaster, the company implemented a zealous (and apparently remarkably successful) campaign to improve its safety standards, in order to reduce the likelihood of any future disasters. One can only hope that the present disaster prompts BP to implement similar measures.


For years I refused to patronize any Exxon station, as I now refuse to patronize a BP station. I may have to start seeking out Exxon stations now, though. Compared to other oil companies -- especially BP -- Exxon seems to have had an exemplary record in recent years, and I think they deserve to be rewarded for that.


Cheers,

Michael

[Dingfod]

Where you can get it, Sinclair is the way to go, they claim they don't use any imported oil.

[The Man]

I've been patronising exclusively Citgo stations since they were the only company that responded when the U.S. government asked them to sell discount heating oil to poor families a few winters ago. Chávez may be a bit of a crackpot but he seems to care about the little guy, which is more than I can say for oil company execs here.

[LadyShea]

After Katrina, Citgo stations had gas a week sooner than everyone else, as well.

[LadyShea]

I had mentioned previously about oil spill induced jubilees...I may have been right
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-23/gulf-of-mexico-s-fish-beachings-may-be-increasing-because-of-bp-oil-spill.html

[Qingdai]

Holy shit, I was trying to remember the name for that phenomena a few years back, to describe to one of my science major friends that moved to Florida.
I had forgotten what a misbegotten name Jubilee was for a fairly scary event.

[LadyShea]

Some places just call them "fish kills". That's what I call them when they happen in our river, because hundreds of dead mullet don't make me celebrate. Gack!

I guess the Bay has a more tempting selection of seafood.

[Shake]

Some venues are now reporting a new (http://www.kctv5.com/news/24743637/detail.html) oil eating microbe which has been flourishing and eating well since the whole spill. Interestingly, when I went looking for this article, I found that, well, it's maybe not such a new idea (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-microbes-clean-up-oil-spills) after all: SciAm predicts microbes would help 3 months ago!

[LadyShea]

The microbes do help with the oil, but they cause oxygen depletion, which exacerbates the dead zone problem already present due to run off. So there is a bit of a tradeoff.

[Qingdai]

Apparently from the NPR report I heard, which isn't exactly peer reviewed, the microbes they discovered in the Gulf don't deplete oxygen. They had a hard time finding them because of their lack of oxygen depletion. That may have been the conclusion of the BP scientist or something.

[LadyShea]

Yeah, I finally read about the new microbes they just discovered...so forgive my stupid

Shake, they have found a previously unknown type of microbe, though they have known about oil eating microbes in general for years.

[Shake]

Yes, it wasn't exactly what they predicted. It's exciting when things like this turn up, though.

[The Man]

I resurrect this thread because a new study has been released (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rocky-kistner/number-of-dead-dolphins-a_b_842823.html) suggesting that the number of dead dolphins and whales may be as many as fifty times higher than was previously estimated. New estimates are suggesting that as many as 6,500 dolphins may have died. Certain other species of mammals may have died at even greater rates - up to 250 times more than previously estimated. So in other words, the media's claims that the disaster had modest environmental impact were, uh, bullshit. Not that anyone should be surprised by this. NDRC's Michael Jasny writes (http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/mjasny/dolphin_die-off_how_big_is_the.html): This frightening math makes determining the provenance of the 130 stranded animals all the more urgent. As I’ve said before, the dolphin communities that have made their homes in the Gulf’s bays, sounds, and estuaries are small and semi-isolated, and the death of even a few babies can have outsized effects on the group. The shelf and offshore populations are larger but not vast, and the death of hundreds, let alone thousands, of animals would far exceed the government’s estimate of what they can reasonably sustain.And of course it's highly unlikely that BP will ever have to pay the full damages for what they've done. No one should be surprised.

[LadyShea]

I stupidly linked from that dolphin article to the one about sea turtles. We live on an estuarial river/bay system that is home to hundreds of dolphins...usually we see the babies in the river and bays this time of year. I don't want to find any dead ones

We start walking for sea turtle nests May 1, again I do not want to be the one who finds one dead.

[LadyShea]

The lime green shirt people are with the group I volunteer with, Share the Beach. We work closely with the sea mammal lab in Mississippi also shown in this vid

<embed src="http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/sites/video/swf/ngplayer_syndicated.swf" flashVars="slug=nsf-oil-turtles-2011-vin&img=http://video.nationalgeographic.com/exposure/core_media/ngphoto/image/37198_0_610x343.jpg&vtitle=Gulf%20Turtle%20Nests%20Abound,%20But%20Worries%20Remain&caption=%3Cp%3EJuly%206,%202011---Sea%20turtle%20nesting%20season%20is%20underway%20on%20Gulf%20of%20Mexico%20%20beaches,%20and%20observers%20say%20activity%20seems%20normal.%20But%20these%20aren't%20the%20%20same%20animals%20that%20nested%20during%20last%20year's%20Gulf%20oil%20spill,%20and%20%20scientists%20are%20concerned%20about%20a%20continued%20rise%20in%20turtle%20deaths.%3C/p%3E&permalink=http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/player/news/animals-news/nsf-oil-turtles-2011-vin.html&share=true" name="flashObj" width="460" height="321" seamlesstabbing="false" allowfullscree

Video -- Gulf Turtle Nests Abound, But Worries Remain -- National Geographic (http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/player/news/animals-news/nsf-oil-turtles-2011-vin.html)

[Crumb]

Turtles are awesome. Thanks for all the great work you do for them, LS. :smile:

[LadyShea]

They were requesting donations to buy more satellite tags, I am not sure how that went but it had good early response. If anyone wants to donate, or adopt a hatchling or something (you get a cert and everything) go to Alabama Sea Turtle "Share the Beach" volunteer program (http://www.alabamaseaturtles.com)

[The Man]

Fresh oil slicks forming over Deepwater Horizon spill site (http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/08/fresh-oil-slicks-forming-over-deepwater-horizon-spill-site/)

ugh

[Watser?]

This Spring Aguinaga filed a lawsuit against BP in hopes of obtaining compensation for his deteriorating health.

Aguinaga's attorney encouraged him with the prospect of setting a precedent for other health-related lawsuits against BP. But instead of bringing Aguinaga relief, the process has turned his life upside down.

Within 30 days of filing the lawsuit, Aguinaga had his home in Hazelhurst, Mississippi broken into.

"I found the Norton Security alert on my laptop warning me that someone had tried to access my information, and the door to my house was left open," he explained. "I think somebody wanted me to know they could get in easily."

Aguinaga's employer, Star Services, who had placed him on workers' compensation for a work-related injury, cut off his cheques after he filed the lawsuit against BP.

According to Aguinaga, both he and his wife are being followed, while in early September a truck tried to run him off the road near a bridge.
Follow Al Jazeera's ongoing coverage of the BP disaster

Three of his four security dogs were recently killed, and the fourth was stabbed.

While Aguinaga's story is the fodder of conspiracy theorists, it has precedent.

Washington DC attorney Billie Garde has seen this kind of thing before.

"I've had cases where similar tactics [by the defendant] were used," Garde, whose firm Clifford and Garde often represents whistleblowers, told Al Jazeera, "I represented people in years past in a case against Wackenhut when oil companies [in Alaska] hired a bunch of people to spy on these folks."http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/10/2011101454750450299.html

[LadyShea]

That is downright scary...and I live here but am just now hearing about The Gulf Blue Plague? It's all very Spooky Mulder, still, but might there be something to it?

[Watser?]

Yeah, it's a weird tale, but worth following up on.

[erimir]

Yes, but aren't you glad we haven't given too much power to the government?

The free market will short this all out, I'm sure :unnod:

[The Man]

:bump:

Oil dispersants make spills 52 times more toxic, researchers say | The Raw Story (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/11/30/oil-dispersants-make-spills-52-times-more-toxic-researchers-say/)

Whoops!

ETA: I think I forgot to post this:

BP has been fined a paltry $4.5 billion, which amounts to a paltry fifth of the company's 2011 profits. Needless to say, environmental groups are not happy (http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/11/15-5).

The Onion has already summed it up (http://www.theonion.com/articles/bp-ceo-we-deeply-regret-the-tragic-loss-of-45-bill,30394/).

[The Man]

BP suspended from new US contracts over lack of business integrity. (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2012/11/2012112818360755520.html)

And nothing of value was lost.

[The Man]

BP Oil Spill Flow Rate Vastly Understated For Weeks, Emails Show (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/08/bp-oil-spill-flow-rate-emails_n_2260275.html)

Looks like there is pretty strong evidence of a cover-up. Not that this should surprise anyone at this point.

[The Man]

Oil may be seeping from Deepwater Horizon site - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57558916/oil-may-be-seeping-from-deepwater-horizon-site/)

gods damn it

[MonCapitan2002]

Personally, I think BP should have been forced to turn over all its assets and be broken up permanently as a company. Hmm, maybe a sentence of having a third of their annual gross revenue seized by the government in perpetuity would have been a fitting punishment (along with all decisions made by the company being subject to approval by an external overseer).

[Angakuk]

Can you work in something about a rusty crowbar as well?

[The Man]

Corexit, Oil Dispersant Used By BP, Is Destroying Gulf Marine Life, Scientists Say (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/25/corexit-bp-oil-dispersant_n_3157080.html)

Whoops!

[The Man]

ugh (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/after-deepwater-oil-spill-once-speedy-tuna-no-longer-make-the-grade/2014/03/24/4d2e2d78-b378-11e3-b899-20667de76985_story.html?hpid=z4)

The BP Deepwater Horizon oil spill struck at the very heart of fish, a new study (http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2014/03/19/1320950111.abstract) says. Exposed to millions of gallons of crude, young tuna and amberjack, some of the speediest predators in the ocean, developed heart defects that are likely to limit their ability to catch food.

The findings of the study, led by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, have grim implications for the future of yellowfin and bluefin tuna, as well as amberjack, that were embryos, larvae or juveniles when the spill occurred during tuna-spawning season in the northern Gulf of Mexico in April 2010…

“They’re not going to be able to survive” as they develop into adult fish, said Nat Scholz, leader of the ecotoxicology program at NOAA’s Northwest Fisheries Science Center in Seattle. “You’re going to be losing those fish from the adult spawning population.”…

NOAA’s study comes as BP has regained the ability (http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/bp-regains-ability-to-bid-on-leases-for-us-land-water/2014/03/13/4f89a616-aaee-11e3-af5f-4c56b834c4bf_story.html) to bid on federal oil and gas leases; the Environmental Protection Agency recently lifted a ban on the company. The oil giant filed a lawsuit in a Texas court last August, arguing it had been sufficiently punished for the spill…

[The Man]

no one could have predicted

new spill in Lake Michigan (http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/03/25/3418808/oil-leaks-lake-michigan/)

this news is almost a week old but for some reason i'm just now getting around to posting it. i'm sorry.

[Adam]

That's just down the road from my home town. Hooray. Also, good job, Indiana regulators, way to force BP to inch marginally closer to compliance with federal regulations re: dumping mercury into our fucking lake.

[The Man]

Oh hey, BP is still terrible (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2014/05/gulf_coast_oil_spill_settlement_bp_should_pay_up.html).

If you need snark with your news reporting, Wonkette (http://wonkette.com/549681/bp-chief-to-gulf-states-suck-it-losers) once again has you covered.