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Originally Posted by peacegirl
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Originally Posted by LadyShea
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Originally Posted by peacegirl
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Originally Posted by davidm
We can easily dispense with this argument.
1. It is not established, merely asserted, that we always move in the direction of greater satisfaction. Among other things, this claim runs afoul of real-world circumstances in which, very often, we do not know which option will bring us greater satisfaction.
2. However, let us say, by hypothesis, that the claim is true: We always move in the direction of greater satisfaction. This fact, if it were a fact, does not impeach our free will. As has already been explained, and as everyone except you-know-who understands, it merely means that we DO move in the direction of greater satisfaction, not that we MUST.
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Thank you for this refutation but I have to disagree. We cannot DO if we don't move in this direction naturally. We cannot LadyShea. We can only DO what our desire is telling us to DO. Desire is the impetus here. I am trying to come from your position in order to show you where you're confused, so don't give up, okay? |
We can do all sorts of things. Your challenge is to show that we must do them.
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Originally Posted by davidm
To assert that we MUST move in the direction of greater satisfaction, is to commit the modal fallacy, wherein one mixes up contingent truth with necessary truth.
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Originally Posted by peacegirl
That's an assertion that keeps your worldview safe. I can't fight someone who sets up a premise that cannot be disputed, which is what you're doing.  |
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All you have to do is demonstrate where the "must" comes from. You need to differentiate between actual truths and necessary truths and show, through sound and solid reasoning, that this movement towards greater satisfaction is necessary rather than merely actual.
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Originally Posted by davidm
So that is the end of Lessans' argument.
Here you go, first premise refuted
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Originally Posted by peacegirl
So wrong, my heart is broken.
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Your heart is irrelevant, this isn't about emotions remember? Put your head in it.
If you can't show this foundational premise to be sound, the rest falls apart. |
I agree with you LadyShea. I am not in opposition with science at all. There is a disconnect here that has nothing to do with the validity of Lessans' claims and I hope you eventually see that. I just hope I'm still here because I'm freaked out at the anger and vitriol that I am getting, and it hurts. |
peacegirl, I agree, there's a disconnect, but it's in your brain. Get help.