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Originally Posted by Sauron
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Muslim schools teach Muslim children that sex outside marriage is a sin. Homosexuality is also a sin. Sex before marriage and homosexuality are western values and Muslims are not supposed to adopt them.
British values, which are said to include respect for legally protected characteristics such as homosexuality, religion, gender change, disability, race and marital status. what a warping of British values, the British values I was taught are respect for the institution of marriage, freedom of religious pursuit, freedom of speech, respect for the monarch. respect for others.
Until we change our attitude towards victims of sexual abuse we will continue to have these scandals. This isn't just an issue in Rotherham or the UK for that matter. Globally, we have seen repeated failures of authorities who did not believe the victims of sex crimes. Unfortunately, various groups - including atheists and Christians - have used the misogyny of Islam to justify perpetuating their own misogyny. Apparently Western misogyny doesn't need to be addressed because Muslim misogyny is worse. Misogyny is not unique to Islam or the Middle East. It wasn't until the 20th century that Christians began to abhor family violence. The current Australian PM is on record as saying his daughter's greatest gift to give is their virginity.
British culture. Watch BBC News about Rolf Harris and his evil deeds for the last 50 years. Muslims feel ashamed of British culture and it values.
A couple of Pakistanis have adopted the British values of grooming young children. They are the product of the British schooling with non-Muslim monolingual teachers. I have been doing Jihad in the field of education for the last 40 years so that each and every Muslim child should be in a state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. I would like to see Muslim children developing Cultural, linguistic and spiritual identities so that they could keep themselves away from western barbarity of anti-social behaviour, binge drinking, drug addiction, teen age pregnancies and abortion and lot of other evils but people like you do not want to see Muslim children in Muslim schools in the name of integration. Now you have seen the result in the form of sexual grooming of young children which is a common occurrence in your culture.
Promoting or Espousing British Values has all but been outlawed in this country. What he ought to have said was promoting Politically Correct, state Sanctioned British Values which just goes to show that this statement by them is mere propaganda. Ok Mr Gove, I challenge you to tell us what these British values are. For a start, do you mean English? Are they, looking after the sick and elderly, privatising public services, allowing the City who caused the debt we're in, to continue making millions whilst we suffer losing out for past 4 years, that democracy must always prevail when we have a rampant right wing media. Don't talk shit Gove, you wouldn't know a decent value even if the Mail printed it. Telegraph report........Gove became embroiled in the Commons expenses scandal after the Telegraph reported that he had claimed £7,000 to furnish his London home before "flipping" his designated second home to a house in his constituency, Surrey Heath. Are these the British Values he is talking about? It says that schools must promote British values of respect for the law, democracy, equality and tolerance of different faiths and religious and other beliefs. Since the government itself fails to do that, why should schools have to?
What British values? The only values politicians have are greed, nepotism, sleaze and corruption. What a load of BS.... Birmingham council admitted that there is no evidence of extremism in the schools so your just trying to scare people with your crap Mr Gove...Does the man mean British values or the values of Cameron's corrupt junta? The two are certainly not the same. Democracy and free speech or the limitation of them are the first issues that come to mind. so if you haven't worked it out yet, Gove’s Trojan horse plot was meant to create a fake hysteria around Muslims and Islam so that Gove could extend his powers with little complaint from the Brit public. If anyone gets the time just read Theresa mays leaked letter to Gove .. it alludes to what had been discussed and planned. the Trojan hoax was just the means of getting there - not that the bigots care about Gove’s abuse of powers. Sick and tired of this minister and his gang! Think BIG, teach people to think universal values instead of old-fashioned nationalism conducting to xenophobia. You won't have extreme practise in your school Mr Gove but you will end up with what something even more terrifying: a mass sentiment of rage against other cultures and nationalities, ignorance all around you. Shame on you.
I would like to know, from Mr Gove, what is being done to investigate the school inspector who failed to observe, report and prevent the take over of these schools? Lee Donaghy, the assistant principal of Birmingham's Park View School which was placed in special measures over fears children were at risk of radicalisation, said many of the concerns over Muslim extremists were 'plain old Islamophobia'. It was clear from remarks made by Muslims involved in the running of the schools that they were just continuing during school hours the culture that children were living in for the rest of the time, and where 95% of the pupils were Muslim it seemed only natural to do so. The whole 'Trojan Horse' thing reminds me of the Satanic Abuse scandal, which turned out to be a load of paranoid rubbish. Is there any evidence for it at all? Looks like an excuse to spread nationalist dogma into schools.The British government is advertising hatred and disgust for foreigners with many of its policies and the attitude of the press is also very unhelpful... i do not know where they think this will lead us to.
I prefer to fight evil by not allowing one minority group to be blamed, accused and then discriminated against because of a minority of the minority. There were terrorists before the current jihadist terrorists. The IRA to name but one example. Did we ban the Irish from being involved in running schools? Did we curb their liberties? Did we wholesale blame the Irish and look to enforce 'control measures' as you so worrying phrased it, against them? No, we did what all reasonable, rational and just societies did and looked for those responsible. It may not be the easiest route, but it is the just route. Wholesale discrimination of the kind you are implying is wrong, immoral and frankly disturbing that anyone would suggest it. Gove tells the teachers which books they should let the children study, forces the schools to accept a Christian version of the Bible...and if that is not censorship, I don't know what is.
When I heard Cameron talk about people "respecting" British values and institutions, I couldn't stop laughing. Institutions like the police force, that have been found to be institutionally racist? Or what about the CPS and the IPCC, who have FAILED to arrest let alone prosecute, one police officer over the five hundred or so death in custody cases. Then you have the corporate controlled corrupt media institutions in Britain, that deserve no respect.
The government's crusade to embed "British values" in our education system is meaningless at best, dangerous at worst, and a perversion of British history in any case. It's meaningless because our history is the struggle of many different Britains, each with their own conflicting sets of values. 'Values' are always something that is contested and they can have real political impact. We are a very diverse country and no Government can legislate the values for a whole population. When the Conservatives talk about British values, they imagine some Arcadian idyll of Britishness that has never really existed. Even the 'British' idea of fair play is fraught with a history of contradictions and hypocrisy. Equality for all, except those whose cultures differ to yours? I must say Cameron's grasp of history (among other things) is not exactly a good advertisement for an Eton education, but I suppose there is little anyone can do with such people. As Goethe said "Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens". Tolerance, democracy, freedom of expression, equality of men and women. Let's not forget that there are Christian religious extremists out there that don't like these things either.
David Cameron said that British values was about "tolerance". Well, then, why does he have people like Esther McVeigh, Iain Duncan Smith, Alec Sherbrook et al, in his own party? These people are the most intolerant people in the Tory Party. Almost everyone in Liverpool detests the odious woman McVeigh; Smith is universally hated; and Sherbrook is also odious. We could add Gove and Lord Freud to this list. These people make it virtually impossible to be tolerant to, because their views are intolerant in themselves. Isn't this just another example of "do as I say, not as I do"? How many of our politicians and lords still in power supported Section 28 and were against equal marriage? Surely their intolerance is not Representative of "British values". I disagree strongly with Cameron's "values".
Let's not pretend this whole "British values" nonsense is about anything else than targeting British Muslims and pretending that they are somehow different from everyone else in this country. Just as demonising Jews was once the means by which a country unified itself, so now Britons who are being viciously attacked by this Government and its super rich patrons are being asked to unite behind the flag and a vicious campaign against Islam. The neoliberal revolution, as damaging to ordinary people as the enclosures of the more distant past and the industrial revolution of the more recent, is about to claim more victims: our fellow citizens who happen to be Muslim. It is not British values our children will be taught it is simply the values that enable the establishment to continue on, in the same way they make sure that is what is taught in private schools will guarantee the continuation of 'born to rule' clones, brainwashed just as much, as detached from the rest of the population as they can be, fearful that the classes should dare to mix and actually start to understand or even empathise with each other, or God forbid work together towards a more equal society. Yes, it all stinks. Not helped too with the latest news that the only extra funding this Govt deems to fit to pass on to schools is to try and encourage state school children to join military cadet organisations. Now there's a tradition that continues on - providing the next generation of cannon fodder to again continue on what the rest of us in reality should be fighting against.
When I first saw that Cameron was wittering on about teaching children "British Values", I just found it laughable. I am British and my values are no where near his values, I personally think mine are far superior, I don't lie for a start, but I doubt he would agree. There have been times during the time this government has been in power that I have almost felt ashamed of been British, with soup kitchens, child poverty increasing and vulnerable people been left without a safety net. I don't think these things represent any values worth having. I feel much the same, when I hear him chuntering on about his own beliefs and that the UK is a Christian country. He should be keeping his own personal belief system out of his employment, for a start and personally I find the fact that by default, I am apparently a Christian, absolutely repellent. Perhaps, if Cameron wishes to continue rabbiting on about British values he should find out what values British people actually have, because I don't believe he is speaking for anyone but himself and the fairy land he apparently lives in.
Lack of evidence about what happened at the 'Trojan Horse' school. Maybe some bad things happened but there is hardly evidence of Homophobia or fascism. If there was, then local authority oversight (like in non-academy schools) would probably have stopped it. This whole debate is designed to get Gove off the hook. Remind me again how many public schools are single-sex? Including the ones attended by our current cabinet, perhaps? All Cameron is trying to do is stop Islamists taking over schools & using the curriculum to brainwash kids impressionable minds with religious mumbo jumbo that bares little resemblance to reality, science & fact. Teaching unions seem unbothered by this creeping Islamisation of our schools. Today's 'British' values are totally based on privateering and profiteering. When I hear Cameron spouting vapid platitudes about 'British values' I wonder does he mean his own superficial and election-rigging slogans, or his efforts to portray the tiny clique of fellow frat boys' aspirations as somehow 'British'? Whatever, nothing he has done has any resemblance to anything recognisable as 'British' values. Why have Gove and Cameron started to talk about how they want schools to teach British values? Because of the Ofsted investigation into schools in Birmingham. They mean "we have to make clear that the values that were being taught in those schools are not British values". It would really be better if they said "values of modern Western liberal democracy" but I suppose they think that doesn't make a very good sound bite. Ask those in Guantanamo Bay what they think of democracy and respect for the rule of law. All values are relative, and used to suit those in power.
As for the history taught in schools, I would advocate a version in which pupils were told that most events can be interpreted in many different ways. They should then be given the evidence and the tools to make up their own minds. Rather than imposing any narrative, whether left or right on to them, let them learn to make their own judgements. This will prepare them far better for active citizenship in adult life - history lessons can help them develop skills of critical reading, how to balance different viewpoints, and how to reach conclusions based on evidence. That, for me, should be the proper role of history lessons in schools. Politicians don't always seem to like this idea, presumably because it would teach the next generation of voters how to think for themselves. Cameron and Gove's version of British history has a lot to do with the Ladybird series.Perhaps we need to teach children about a wide range of historically rooted values and teach them to analyse and question these as they are guided through the wide range of facts and myriad perspectives.If Cameron's upper crust version of historically grounded values are the only ones that children are taught then this amounts to cultural dominance ,hegemony ,an imposition of the status quo etc .Cameron's vision of values seem to be geared towards producing a mass of genuflecting supplicants. The history of Britain has always been the struggle of the majority against the minority who hold power, wealth and land. They usually have the guns as well. I was thinking about how the Royals are always embedded within the military as I watched a snippet of the Trooping of the Colour the other day. Society evolves, however the powerful also evolve and find new ways to exercise their power. They own the Westminster Parliament. There is a saying that goes, "history is written by the victors". I think that's very true of every nation. The victors like to pretend that they're the good guys. Yes, that's likely! LOL.
British society must learn to respect and tolerate those who are different. God has created diverse human beings to live in this tiny global village of one family. Creation by its very nature is diverse with different species, different communities, different cultures and languages. These differences represent the beauty and wonder but diversity is sometimes not fully appreciated, resulting in all sorts of clashes. The British society and Establishment must learn to respect and accommodate others, as if in a family. A report by the Institute for Community Cohesion found that native parents were deserting some schools after finding their children outnumbered by pupils from ethnic minorities. Schools in parts of England are becoming increasingly segregated. The study focused on 13 local authorities. Many of the schools and colleges are segregated and this was generally worsening over recent years. This is RACISM because British society is the home of institutional racism. A study by Bristol University reveals that a high level of racial segregation in Oldham schools and tension between communities resulted in recent riots in 2001. The solution is that those schools where Muslim children are majority may be designated as Muslim community schools. The native parents do not want their children to be educated along with migrant children. As soon as they find that the number of other children is on the increase, they remove their children to those schools where native children are in majority.
Prince Charles, while visiting the first grant maintained Muslim school in north London, said that the pupils would be the future ambassadors of Islam. But what about thousands of others, who attend state schools, deemed to be "sink schools"? You better teach your children in your own schools and let migrant communities teach their children according to their needs and demands. British Establishment and society should concentrate on the evils of their own society and stop trying to change the way of life of Muslims. Muslim community does not want to integrate with the British society, indulging in incivility, anti-social behaviour, drug and knife culture, binge drinking, teenage pregnancies and abortion. In education, there should be a choice and at present it is denied to the Muslim community. In the late 80s and early 90s, when I floated the idea of Muslim community schools, I was declared a "school hijacker" by an editorial in the Newham Recorder newspaper. This clearly shows that the British media does not believe in choice and diversity in the field of education and has no respect for those who are different. Muslim schools, in spite of meagre resources, have excelled to a further extent this year, with couple of schools achieving 100% A-C grades for five or more GCSEs. They beat well resourced state and independent schools in Birmingham and Hackney. Muslim schools are doing better because a majority of the teachers are Muslim. The pupils are not exposed to the pressures of racism, multiculturalism and bullying. According to a recent report, Muslim schools performed best overall, although they constitute only a fraction of the country's 7000 schools. Muslim schools do well because of their Islamic ethos and a focus on traditional discipline and teaching methods. They teach children what is right and what is wrong, because young children need structured guidance.
You better teach your children in your own schools and let migrant communities teach their children according to their needs and demands. British Establishment and society should concentrate on the evils of their own society and stop trying to change the way of life of Muslims. Muslim community does not want to integrate with the British society, indulging in incivility, anti-social behaviour, drug and knife culture, binge drinking, teenage pregnancies and abortion. Prince Charles, while visiting the first grant maintained Muslim school in north London, said that the pupils would be the future ambassadors of Islam. But what about thousands of others, who attend state schools deemed to be "sink schools"? In education, there should be a choice and at present it is denied to the Muslim community. In the late 80s and early 90s, when I floated the idea of Muslim community schools, I was declared a "school hijacker" by an editorial in the Newham Recorder newspaper in east London. This clearly shows that the British media does not believe in choice and diversity in the field of education and has no respect for those who are different. Muslim schools, in spite of meagre resources, have excelled to a further extent this year, with couple of schools achieving 100% A-C grades for five or more GCSEs.
There are hundreds of state primary and secondary schools where Muslim pupils are in majority. In my opinion all such schools may be opted out to become Muslim Academies. This mean the Muslim children will get a decent education. Muslim schools turned out balanced citizens, more tolerant of others and less likely to succumb to criminality or extremism. Muslim schools give young people confidence in who they are and an understanding of Islam’s teaching of tolerance and respect which prepares them for a positive and fulfilling role in society.