I only just noticed this thread today (well, it was pointed out to me
). That post by Galiel you pointed to was awesome Liv. I agree with him on all points. And the kind of depressing answers that Loren Pechtel gives after that post I am VERY familiar with...
I have been called an anti-semite and have seen people call others that in discussions about Israel and Palestine so many times the whole word has become totall meaningless to me. It is a weapon of mass distraction, a way to lead the discussion to another track and avoid having to argue the point.
Although I have noticed that these days the slur anti-semite is used less often and is being replaced by terrorist-supporter. I have seen people actually defending Israeli attacks on Lebanese minibuses using the argument that Hezbollah uses them to transport weapons sometimes. Then when I pointed out that by that logic you can defend Hamas attacks on Israeli buses because there are soldiers in them, they twisted that sentence to mean that I was defending terrorism. For the record: I think Hamas (or anybody) blowing up Israeli (or any) buses is disgusting. But my whole point in that discussion was: blowing up minibuses or ambulances with bombs delivered by planes is just as bad. Call it terrorism, call it war crimes, it is not limited to one side in the conflict(s).
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by godfry n. glad
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Paranoid
Israel exists, and that's that. So does Palestine.
|
Indeed. |
Well, no. Palestine does not exist, it is occupied by Israel. Even Gaza still is.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by godfry n. glad
I also believe that under the Israeli constitution, all Israelis, whether of Jewish or Arab heritage, are guaranteed full and equal civil liberties, rights and responsibilities. As far as I know, only a small proportion of those of Arab heritage, almost all Druse, have accepted Israeli citizenship. Instead, most of the Palestinians refused the offer of citizenship. Thus, after the 1948 war, they were viewed (with reason, I'd say) as hostile foreign nationals.
|
Israel does not HAVE a constitution AFAIK.
Israeli Arabs do not have full and equal civil liberties, rights and responsibilities:
Quote:
|
Adalah's report to the World Conference Against Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance, issued August/September 2001 and entitled Institutionalized Discrimination Against Palestinian Citizens of Israel, identifies more than 20 laws that discriminate against the Palestinian minority in Israel. The report shows that the Jewish character of the state is evident in numerous Israeli laws. The most important immigration laws, The Law of Return (1950) and The Citizenship Law (1952), allow Jews to freely immigrate to Israel and gain citizenship, but excludes Arabs who were forced to flee their homes in 1947 and 1967. Israeli law also confers special quasi-governmental standing on the World Zionist Organization, the Jewish Agency, the Jewish National Fund and other Zionist bodies, which by their own charters cater only to Jews. Various other laws such as The Chief Rabbinate of Israel Law (1980), The Flag and Emblem Law (1949), and The State Education Law (1953) and its 2000 amendment give recognition to Jewish educational, religious, and cultural practices and institutions, and define their aims and objectives strictly in Jewish terms.
|
Adalah, the Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel
You can find more tiny little things that make clear that Jews are a little more equal in Israel than Arabs. What is more there are all kinds of bonuses and perks that are only available to people who have served in the military and only Druze and bedouins serve, the majority of Israeli Arabs (Muslims and Christians) do not (and are not even allowed).
The point that Galiel made that I agree with especially is this: we have leverage over the Israelis and should use this leverage to force them, the stronger party in the conflict, to take the first step. Not just for the Palestinians, not just because the conflict affects relations with all the Arab nations and even all the Muslim nations, but also for Israel's sake. They have now tied themselves totally to the American neo-con adventure, as American power in the Middle East goes down (and it will...) they run the risk of being more isolated than ever. They are creating their own nightmare scenario I am very afraid...
