[Michali]

[22:27] NeonQuill: let me lay out a few lines and then Ill say end of line
[22:27] Raven : this is also why I don't like philosophy. Too much theory, too little evidence
[22:28] NeonQuill: the blue cell is there only if it can be interefered with
[22:28] NeonQuill: it cannot be interfered with
[22:28] NeonQuill: the blue cell is not there
[22:29] NeonQuill: end of line
[22:29] NeonQuill: yet we saw it
[22:29] Raven : What do you mean by interfered with?
[22:29] NeonQuill: it was never there
[22:29] NeonQuill: i know i know
[22:29] NeonQuill: ok
[22:29] NeonQuill: for instance
[22:29] NeonQuill: I could set a glider, right next to the 9 squares with a blue in the middle on a larger grid
[22:29] NeonQuill: in the next generation
[22:29] NeonQuill: the glider and the blue square will meet
[22:30] NeonQuill: and flip out in some way
[22:30] NeonQuill: and stabilize
[22:30] NeonQuill: thats what i mean be interfere
[22:30] NeonQuill: if it can be
[22:31] NeonQuill: a part of the processes that end up in the stabilization
[22:31] NeonQuill: thus
[22:31] Raven : conway's life, as I've come to understand the rules, is that there are certain rules of the game to define whether a cell lives or dies. Whether it's blue or grey. One blue cell by itself starts alive, but dies, becoming grey, because it's alone. Right?
[22:31] NeonQuill: we have this backwards causation via means of reason
[22:31] NeonQuill: right
[22:32] NeonQuill: or function
[22:32] NeonQuill: i mean via means of function
[22:33] Raven : But you can't say it was always grey. Or that it didn't exist. Because it did. Fourth dimensionally it exists in a moment of time. And mathematically you can't say that it is equal to the end state of being dead, because there are other beginning states that could lead to the same all grey squares.
[22:33] Raven : one blue square in the center, or four blue squares, one in each corner. Both of these will lead to all grey squares the next generation
[22:34] NeonQuill: right
[22:34] NeonQuill: these are all the same
[22:34] Raven : and so you're trying to say that one blue square = grey, and that 4 blue squares = grey. And both of these are true. Bue 4 blue squares does not equal 1 blue square, even though they arrive at the same output. Attempting to make them equal would be the same as dividing by zero, which was the point of the previous exercise I showed you
[22:34] NeonQuill: in other words
[22:34] NeonQuill: it "means" all grey squares... reading
[22:35] Raven : You have to see it as a passage of time, you have to see it 4th dimensionally. It's not just grey. It's a process by which one blue square died, or four blue squares died, that came to mean all grey squares.
[22:35] Raven : Two seperate possibilities, diverging at a similar conclusion, yet starting at different sources.
[22:35] NeonQuill: yeah but heres why not
[22:36] NeonQuill: lets say processes occured such that
[22:36] NeonQuill: we take the glider scenario
[22:36] NeonQuill: and it hits the sole blue ssquare
[22:36] NeonQuill: and lets say it all cancels out after 14 generations
[22:36] NeonQuill: and theres all grey suares
[22:37] NeonQuill: well that initial generation
[22:37] NeonQuill: thats all grey squares
[22:37] NeonQuill: but
[22:37] NeonQuill: lets say that we rewrote the rules
[22:37] NeonQuill: such that instead of
[22:38] NeonQuill: "one blue square adjacent to none or only one will be grey in the next turn"
[22:38] NeonQuill: etc
[22:38] NeonQuill: we wrote it to encompass the relevant cell-pattern of the glider and the blue lone cell
[22:38] NeonQuill: we wouldnt need to see the geerneations
[22:38] NeonQuill: we would know that it means all grey