[yguy]

Originally Posted by Farren

Whether they were used for a purpose we all like or not, like trying Nazi's for fresh-minted crimes,

Hardly. They were merely crimes whose criminality had not been attested to by written law.

the concept of natural rights are incoherent gibberish.

Actually it is infinitely more elegant than any mathematical equation, your efforts to transform them into gibberish via deconstruction notwithstanding.

Natural rights are moral entitlements "which are not contingent upon the laws, customs, or beliefs or a particular society or polity", basically.

i.e. They are inherent entitlements.

Now the first thing you should be asking yourself (if you're not yguy, who's answer is automatically "because God sed so"), is WTF does "inherent entitlement" actually mean. Does it mean anything at all?

Sure. An inherent right is one that may not be justly infringed.

How can an "entitlement [endowment]" be "inherent"?

Ask Jefferson.

Inherent usually means "a quality of" and "entitlement" implies that you ought to receive something, be it freedom or some form of treatment by man and beast.

"Entitlement" is a bad choice of words, but the idea of inherent rights implies that there is some treatment that an individual ought not be subjected to insofar as it can be prevented by other humans.

So where, oh where, in the human body, do we see the quality of "other people ought to"-ness.

Where in the human body do you see the quality of humanity? Nowhere.

How do we measure it?

What for?

How do we even percieve it?

What's the difference? Were you blind up to the time you found out what a cornea is?

The short answer is, we don't.

Speak for yourself, if you don't mind.

There is no quality of oughtness that we can taste, touch, smell or hear.

But we sense it all the same. If we didn't, we'd never get angry about any perceived injustice.

Ought only comes into existence when people tell other people "you ought to"

No. The telling of it only bears witness to what is already known - assuming it isn't just a lie to control people, such as "You ought to bicycle to work to save planet Earth".

and it only carries a force equivalent to the respect or the fear that you hold for the person telling you that you ought to.

So who are your gods?

Any philosopher with even the vaguest respect for actual, empirical evidence will admit that.

There is no empirical evidence that supports the idea that people acting like cattle is normal - only that it is average. If there were, the Holocaust would have no more historical significance than the extinction of the Dodo bird.