[livius drusus]

Originally Posted by natasha

Agreed. When did the word "Zionist" come to mean apartheid loving neo-con Arab hating ZOG etc.?

Protocols of the Elders of Zion, maybe? Turner's book was very influential in certain circles.

There isn't anything wrong with being a Zionist. It's taken on a whole new, and highly charged, negative meaning today, a short hand for all that is wrong with Israel. And I don't think anyone here would deny there is a lot wrong with the direction Israel is going. But to toss around Zionist as if it's a slur, and as you say, more than once, tends to raise some flags.

It doesn't actually raise flags for me; it just makes me uncomfortable. It's so commonly used that I don't think there's any kind of meaning you can draw from the use of the word alone.

I would personally eschew its use because it's a very vague term which adds nothing I can discern to the discussion and might very well raise hackles. Since I like adding things to discussions and dislike raising hackles, I avoid it and would like to see it avoided more than it is. Or at least see it defined when used so we know which meaning of the word the author intends.

True. BUT, there often is a veiled anti-Semitism, and that's what I was trying to get at in the other thread. Before diving into long discussions about Israel, I like to know where the person is coming from. They may or may not be anti-Semitic, but sometimes are.

And if they are? Seriously. Even the worst racist in the world might be right about any given issue. I prefer to look at the substance of the argument and see if there's something interesting to discuss than to try and divine someone's innermost feelings about Jews and then discuss the substance of their argument.

BTW, being anti-Semitic, or any other form of bigotry, comes in many shades, just like anything else. It just seems that in the past 15 years or so the rush is to bash Israel like crazy, without once stopping to consider all of the factors.

I haven't been talking about these issues for 15 years so I couldn't really say, but I certainly haven't seen any Israel bashing at all in the mainstream press, for instance. Perhaps you're thinking of online interactions on left-leaning boards?

If so, the sheer contrast of what gets posted with the media's generally non-critical stance might seem like there's more bashing going on than there actually is. Besides, who stops to consider all the factors in such discussions? Mediators are a rare personality type on the internet, believe you me.

I agree though, it most certainly is not, by itself, anti-Semitic to question policy.

Do you think it's anti-Semitic to focus on questioning Israeli policy? I got the impression on the other thread that the fact that Sauron has started multiple threads critical of Israel was intrinsically suspect to you. I myself tend to think of it as an area of interest or activist focus. When I went to the model UN in high school, all I did was talk about South African Apartheid because that's the committee I was on and I was on that committee because it was the subject which interested me the most.

That doesn't mean I'm an anti-Boerite. Some of my best friends are Afrikaners.

Good start though, thanks!

Thank you for posting.