[Paranoid]

Originally Posted by Sauron

Oh please. Do you really think that no one sees the difference that you are glossing over?

The difference is that the Kurds are CURRENTLY LIVING on that same land that they want to make into a Kurdistan. So if they succeed in making a Kurdistan, it's just a break-away piece of Turkey, Iran, Syria, etc. The Jews were not in that situation. Jews who had nothing more than a romantic attachment to Palestine just decided -- as a group -- that they wanted to make a state 2000 miles away in a country that most of them had NEVER EVEN SEEN BEFORE. So they came from Europe and wanted to kick out the existing residents in Palestine to make room for their new state.

The two situations aren't remotely identical. The fact that you tried to make them the same speaks to the lengths you will go, to knee-jerk a defense of zionism.

There were maybe 15,000 Jews there before the Zionist movement started up in 1878. So they went there and at the start, started BUYING the land with the goal of making it a country of their own.

By the end of WWI, there were an awful lot of long-term residents and born-and-raised Jews in the land, a total population of 80,000 to 100,000 Jews. By 1928, there were over 200,000. So by 1948, you had nearly 200,000 residents who had lived there 20 years, plus children. That's a pretty good claim on land you had bought for cash. And I notice the sellers didn't throw the cash back.

Note the Arabs were pretty fine with the immigration for a long time. Their population bumped from a quarter of a million in the 1880s to half a million by the end of WWI. That's a lot of in migration of people looking for work. The first riots against the Jews didn't happen until 1920!! So for 40 years, the Arabs sold land to the Jews, took their money, worked for them, lived side-by-side. They never called it theft, and they didn't go to court or arrest the so-called "thieves". There were 100,000 more-or-less peaceful Jewish citizens living in the land at the end of WWI, on land they owned. Sure, it was new land to many, but they owned it outright, against the claims of others.

So what if the land was still somewhat new, who cares? Beyond the historical claim, you have the contracts of the people who bought the land peacably!
[/quote]

Originally Posted by Sauron

If you're Jewish, it's a democracy. If you're not, then it's apartheid.

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Here's your challenges:

(1) prove that Arab Israelis living in Israel (not the occupied territories) are treated worse than blacks under apartheid. You can't.

(2) prove that Arab Israelis living in Israel (not the occupied territories) are treated worse than Jews in ANY muslim country. You can't.

Israel exists, and that's that. So does Palestine. Yes, there are disputed claims, but there are claims on both sides. Any given patch of land is owned by Jews, was owned by Arabs before that, was owned by Jews even earlier, and Arabs even earlier, and homo afarensis before that. EVERYBODY has some historical claim. So arguing that is pointless. The Jews did not come in as bloodthirsty marauding huns, slaughtering the population and sowing the fields with salt. They came with cash and bought land. Eventually, the situation devolved into atrocities on both sides, but you cannot deny the inception.

Anyway, given that we're there, come up with a constructive solution toward peace. Wiping Israel, or Palestine for that matter, off the map is not a solution. Quit wasting time slamming a group just because you don't like them, and instead come up with something that moves toward PEACE.