Let's Talk Cheesecake

[livius drusus]

I've made three of them in my life. The first (recipe from the Philly cream cheese box) was so atrocious it took me a decade to try again. The second (recipe from the always excellent King Arthur Flour site) was delicious, dense and thick just like I wanted, but I think it was just slightly overdone around the outside, and I had a problem keeping the pie-style crust thin in the spot where the bottom and sides of the pan meet.

The third was a compendium of four recipes, one for the crust (chocolate graham cracker and almonds), the KAF one for the filling, one for the raspberry element and the last one for the white chocolate ganache and a far, far longer and slower cooking method. It took about 14 hours to make, all told, and that was before the 12 hours of chilling. A giant pain in the ass, but the results were pretty spectacular.

The cake itself was exactly what I was looking for so rah, but I still had an issue with the crust. My first attempt was using Nilla Wafers and toasted almonds. It failed completely. It had the consistency of polenta and came out of the oven with the sides collapsed and the edges burnt. I switched to the chocolate graham crackers and almonds and that baked up fine, but when the time came to remove it from the springform pan, a lot of the side crust stuck to the collar, even though I had buttered it lightly before pressing the crust against it.

So my question to the floor is how do you make a graham cracker crust that is texturally proper and doesn't stick? Any other cheesecake making tips, experiences, warnings you'd like to proffer would also be much appreciated.

[Kyuss Apollo]

I just quizzed Mrs. KA, who has made her share of cheesecakes, and these are her suggestions as to your graham-cracker crust question, liv.

1. Always use a springform pan

2. Make sure to grease said pan with butter

3. Be careful of a making a crust that is too crumbly--you need to include butter and a tablespoon of granulated sugar in the graham-cracker mix, but not too much butter.

She was a bit vague on how much butter to use in the first place, but that's probably because she's one of the sort that rarely measures -- like when she points and laughs when I take out the measuring cups to make pancakes with teh bisquick lol.

4. Before baking, put a baking sheet with a layer of water in first, then set the springform pan with the cheesecake in it in the middle, so there's a steam thing going on -- she used a French term to explain what that was called, but I can't remember, bay something or something bay I think.

[livius drusus]

Ya, I did all of that except for adding sugar to the graham cracker mix. Since they're chocolate graham crackers they had sugar on them already and I was concerned it would be overly sweet.

Bain-marie, perhaps? I put a roasting pan of water on the rack below the cheesecake instead of setting the springform pan into the water directly. That worked great and I ran no risk of water seeping into the crust and making it soggy.

[Kyuss Apollo]

yes bain-marie that was it. She said to always add the sugar if using any sort of graham-crackers for the crust -- if you're worried about it being too sweet you could try reducing it from a tablespoon to a teaspoon or two. She's not sure why but the sugar helps hold it all together better; its more for texture than flavor.

The only time you wouldn't need to add sugar is if you were using something like Keebler E.L.F. cookies for the crust, which have a sugar creme filling--in that case she says just smash up the cookies without adding any sugar, but still add the butter.

[mulebear]

Sonoma Bear needs to post. Somewhere in the house he has a thick notebook that he has written on how to make cheesecakes. It's basically a diary of almost every cheesecake he's made.

[livius drusus]

Get that bar over here, dammit.

[mulebear]

He once made me a cheesecake with a blackberry topping for my birthday. It was wonderful.

Unfortunately, he is not always forthcoming with his culinary secrets. Loves spying on me when I'm whipping up something in the kitchen. "What'cha making?... Uh huh... What goes in next?... Are you finished with this spice?... How about that spice?... Why are you shooing me from the kitchen?... "

[mulebear]

I told Sonoma that I had volunteered him for this thread.

His respones:

[dry] Oh.



Thanks. [/dry]

[Sonoma Bear]

[mulebear]

Shoo... Shoo...

[Qingdai]

That's about the response I get when I volunteer my husband for a bread question, plus he usually gives the answers in pounds, so that's not so useful.

[Sonoma Bear]

Sigh... Do you realize how hard it is to type with one arm twisted behind you?

Making cheesecakes is incredibly dependent upon the oven, the relative humidity where you are, and how patient you are. What worked perfectly for me for many years in northern California results in split cheesecakes here, so I had to modify my procedures to the local environment.

That said, there are several things I always do:
1. For the crust, I usually use either graham cracker crumbs, or dry chocolate cookie crumbs - always with butter, and always with sugar. The sugar stiffens the crust and makes it stay in place, while the butter keeps it from getting soggy.
2. I always use a spring-form pan that I butter liberally all around before forming the crust to the pan. I tend to like deep NY-Style cheesecakes, so I use a 2.5" deep spring-form pan.
3. The cheesecake always gets baked with a water bath. If I fail to use the water bath, I can count on a split cheesecake. I typically put foil around the bottom of the spring-form pan before sitting it in the water. I've used a separate water bath, but for me, the bain-marie works best.
4. I've experimented with numerous toppings, from a sweetened sour cream with vanilla extract to various fruit toppings. I prefer the latter, although a white chocolate ganache is pretty nice as well.
5. I always let the cheesecake cool in the oven, turning off the oven when the cheesecake is nearly done (still wiggles in the middle), and letting everything cool together SLOWLY.

That said, I doubt that I will ever make a cheesecake as well as J.M. Rosen's Cheesecakes in Petaluma, California (J M Rosen's Cheesecake Whls, Petaluma, CA) - these are served at the White House and at top restaurants. I've had none better.

[Sonoma Bear]

A slice of J.M. Rosen's Cheesecake:

[vremya]

Now I really want me some cheesecake! The picture pushed me over the edge!

[livius drusus]

Neither of the two non-gross cheesecakes I've made had a cracking problem (I don't remember if the crappy Philly one did on account of it was 10 years ago), and there was no water at all in the oven when I made the first one.

The only problem I have is crust. I guess next time I should put sugar in it.

[Kael]

I used to not like cheesecake at all, but it's grown on me lately. I still prefer some kind of heavily mixed variety with chocolate-something or fruit-something rather than just straight up cheesecake.

[vremya]

I'm not too crazy about plain cheesecake either. I love chocolate cheesecake and raspberry cheesecake.

[Kael]

Needless to say, I'm no help whatsoever when it comes to making cheesecake. I just wanted to feel like part of the conversation...

[Gonzo]

I also like cheesecake and have nothing good to add.

I think I'll make some in my competition against lisarea.

ETA: Forgot.

YouTube - Cheesecake Truck -- King Missile...

[Sonoma Bear]

Then, of course, there are savory cheesecakes. Mulebear wants to do a lobster cheesecake, but something about the idea of savory cheesecakes is a turn off for me. I'm willing to give it a try, however, if he buys the lobster...

[LadyShea]

Hubby makes this one quite a bit, it's become his speacialty. Using fresh lemons from the neighbors makes it even more special Lemon Cheesecake with Sour Cream Topping | Mark Bittman

I prefer lighter cheesecakes and this one is light.

Best one ever was from an Italian bakery in Las Vegas. It used ricotta rather than cream cheese and OMG. There are recipes online but I've never tried it.

[livius drusus]

Definitely not for me. I don't like citrus flavored desserts and one of the things that made that stupid Philly cheesecake so awful was the sour cream topping.

[BrotherMan]

Sour cream topping on dessert? If I were to try that I'd totally skip that untasty step.

[Kael]

Sour cream anything? Why would you do that?

Also, I agree that savory cheesecake just doesn't sound right... You'd have to do some major convincing to get me to try it.

[curses]

I dunno, thinking of crab rangoons and how tasty they are, a savory cheesecake might not be so bad.