Citizens executed in other countries

[justaman]

This one is a kind of interesting contrast about the way Australia does political business.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=22844

In a nutshell, Schappelle Corby is a young beautician from the Gold Coast who went on a trip to Bali. Upon arrival, 4.1 kg of marijuana was discovered in her boogie-board bag.

This has sparked a trial and it’s pretty much being covered on a day-by-day basis in oz, much like the terry schiavo case in the US right now.

The thing is, she’s looking at the death penalty for this crime and she’s already been in jail for some months now.

Now the government has done precisely fuck all visibly to help her out. If anything they’ve been seen to impede her defence council, by very reluctantly assisting with the evidence mentioned in the above article.

The thing is, they are playing a game they have to play. We can’t really march into Indonesia’s parliament, plant one foot on Yudhoyono’s desk and demand he release our surfie chick cos we’re fuckn aussies and we fuckn say so. We wouldn’t look very good. I do wonder, however, if she were a U.S. citizen whether dubya wouldn’t do exactly that.

But we play the game. We hope that the trial acquits her. This is why the government is doing fuck all – or at least appearing to – because it is hoping like anything that the trial just finds her not-guilty and it won’t have to cause an international incident. Because if it does find her guilty, foot-planting is exactly what the government will have to do, on however many desks require it. The political fall out of letting a pretty girl with an aussie accent get executed would be unfathomable. The thing is, I’m quite sure Indonesia knows this, and Australia is one country Indonesia desperately doesn’t want to piss off right now. But having said that, it also really doesn’t want to piss off its inhabitants, some of whom have taken to parading out the front of the courthouse, holding banners and signs calling for Schappelle’s execution.

So it’s a fickle situation. John Howard can’t be seen to do anything because we care about what other countries think of us politically. Yet now he’s just starting to feel the backlash from Australians about him not doing enough. On the flip side, Indonesia can’t be seen to undermine it’s court-system to satiate the rumblings of its big western buddy, but it also doesn’t want to make that buddy an enemy.

It is J man’s humble opinion that the court is going to find her not-guilty on all counts and she will be free to go. The Indonesian court system has its trials adjudicated by judges – not juries – and I would be very surprised if these judges hadn’t been counselled about what decision is ultimately the more preferable for all concerned. I think most Aussies assume this as well, because there really isn’t the outcry right now one would expect if her head was on the block.

Still, it’s a frustrating way to do business and while I am more than aware that her being a female and somewhat attractive is eminently more marketable than a big fat aboriginal bloke, I do still genuinely feel for her. I hope she gets sent home and I hope that she can somehow get on with her life. And the thing is, I’d probably hope this even if I thought she DID do it.

On some emotional level, I’m not comfortable with an aussie at the mercy of another country’s idea of crime and punishment. And I feel the exact same thing about David Hicks.

[viscousmemories]

Man, I thought the US was the only country with a hard-on for MJ. That's just ridiculous. I hope your assessment is accurate and she gets off. What the hell are these draconian drug laws about?

[Shaguar]

Think this is Draconian you should try singapore. they did actually execute and Aussie and a brit a few year ago in Thailand for drug smuggling. I would wish they put the same emphasis on the so called sex tourists that flood this part of the world

[viscousmemories]

Originally Posted by Shaguar

Think this is Draconian you should try singapore. they did actually execute and Aussie and a brit a few year ago in Thailand for drug smuggling. I would wish they put the same emphasis on the so called sex tourists that flood this part of the world

I think they'd have to stop viewing girls' sexuality as a profitable natural resource first.

[MooseIBe]

in most of the similar cases involving Britons (usually in Thailand) the death sentence is commuted to avoid a potential international scandal. They tend to receive fucking HUGE jail sentences though ... 20 years, 40, 50 ... unbelievable. If she genuinely didn't know that she was carrying the stuff then that would be a travesty. If she DID know she had it on her then I have to say she's fucking stupid .. most people are fully aware of how tough these countries are on drug traffickers. Nonetheless, the death penalty is fucking ridiculous.

[MooseIBe]

Hmm.

Did I, would you say, use one too many 'fuckings' in that message?

[viscousmemories]

It's always a judgement call. There is no standard number of acceptable fuckings in a post. I think you did fine.

[MooseIBe]

BTW 4 kilos is a lot of hash .. that's what, 9 lbs? I think I'd notice if someone dumped 9lbs of stuff in amongst my luggage! But then again, I like to travel light

[justaman]

Like I said, it was in her body board bag so she probably wouldn't have even noticed.

I've got no doubt she's got no idea about it, because she would have to be fucking stupid to think that slipping it into the front pouch is going to make it past customs. Beyond stupid. It does, however, make a lot of sense if it was stashed by a baggage handler after it had been through it's security check to be picked up by another baggage handler in Sydney prior to ever going on the Bali flight (she flew Gold Coast to Sydney first). Seems a bit of a no-brainer.

Another guy has come forward and said that a couple of years back he was in his hotel room in Bali, opened his luggage and found this big bag of pot in there. He'd made it through security by pure luck. He called up the Aus embassy and they told him to flush it down the toilet do not go to the authorities.

[MooseIBe]

Why did they say don't go to the authorities? Was the idea that the authorities were somehow involved and would take the pot on from him and distribute it? I can't see any other way for the traffickers to get it back, otherwise.

That fucking sucks arse though.. if I was him I'd have got out of that country as fast as my legs would have carried me. It's NOT good for their tourist reputation, surely?

[Sonnet]

Originally Posted by Shaguar

Think this is Draconian you should try singapore. they did actually execute and Aussie and a brit a few year ago in Thailand for drug smuggling. I would wish they put the same emphasis on the so called sex tourists that flood this part of the world

Maybe executing the people who kidnap women and force them into the sex industry would be better, instead of hunting down the customers - that way consensual participants would be left out of the fray.

[justaman]

Originally Posted by MooseIBe

Why did they say don't go to the authorities? Was the idea that the authorities were somehow involved and would take the pot on from him and distribute it? I can't see any other way for the traffickers to get it back, otherwise.

No no. They told him to avoid the authorities because he'd get arrested no questions asked. Their police force aren't allowed to do a lot of thinking for themselves, it would seem.

The drugs - as I understand it - were never meant for Bali. When this happens, it is basically a stuff up between interstate traffickers in Australia.

When you think about it, it's quite a smart way of doing business, so long as you've got competant baggage handlers on side. The bags have already gone through all the security checks that they are going to. The baggage handler then slips in the drugs and loads the baggage onto the plane. He notifies the handler at the other end which bag he put it in, and the drugs are retrieved at that next stop.

But what has apparently happened is the second baggage handler is missing the bag and it is being sent on its way to an adjoining flight to god knows where, drugs and all.

People have started wrapping up their luggage in big sheets of plastic so that they can't have anything slipped in.

[Shaguar]

Maybe executing the people who kidnap women and force them into the sex industry would be better, instead of hunting down the customers - that way consensual participants would be left out of the fray.

Talking to a friend of mine who is a cop in the UK, he tells me this is the standard defence used by those arrested under operation ORE, the internet child porn case. He says that the individuals arrested always ask why the police are not tracking down the child abusers for taking the pictures as if they are completely disconnected when they are the market.

In one sentence you have women being forced into the sex industry and then maoning about "Consensual" sex, which is it? are these women being forced or are they consenting?

The legal age of consent in Thailand is 15, under law any girl under this age cannot have consensual sex.

[viscousmemories]

Originally Posted by Shaguar

In one sentence you have women being forced into the sex industry and then maoning about "Consensual" sex, which is it? are these women being forced or are they consenting?

Are you suggesting that prostitution is always non-consensual?

[livius drusus]

I think when Shaguar mentioned "sex tourism" he was referring to people leaving their country specifically to have sex with underaged prostitutes. I think Sonnet thought he was referring to the wider sex industry, hence her point about consensual sex not being something that should be punished.

[Sonnet]

Originally Posted by Shaguar

In one sentence you have women being forced into the sex industry and then maoning about "Consensual" sex, which is it? are these women being forced or are they consenting?

'Moaning'? Hmm.

You mean, making a point?

Some are being forced and some are willing participants. My point is that therefore the issue isn't the sex industry, but kidnapping and slavery. Livius didn't have any trouble - what are YOU moaning about?

[Shaguar]

No demand, No supply, cut away the customers for underage sex and there will no longer be the supply, I believe that the people involved are not motivated by altruism but money.

As LD stated I was talking about child prostitution. This industry is being fed by the demands of mainly western "Sex Tourists", many of them I am afraid to say from my own country.

The problem with adult prostitution as I see it is how do you as a "Customer" determine whether the prostitute has been coerced into the act, I have no problem with legalising prostitution because in theory it is supposed to eradicate the role of the pimps and panderers that proliferate at the moment.

[MooseIBe]

Originally Posted by justaman

No no. They told him to avoid the authorities because he'd get arrested no questions asked. Their police force aren't allowed to do a lot of thinking for themselves, it would seem.

The drugs - as I understand it - were never meant for Bali. When this happens, it is basically a stuff up between interstate traffickers in Australia.

When you think about it, it's quite a smart way of doing business, so long as you've got competant baggage handlers on side. The bags have already gone through all the security checks that they are going to. The baggage handler then slips in the drugs and loads the baggage onto the plane. He notifies the handler at the other end which bag he put it in, and the drugs are retrieved at that next stop.

But what has apparently happened is the second baggage handler is missing the bag and it is being sent on its way to an adjoining flight to god knows where, drugs and all.

People have started wrapping up their luggage in big sheets of plastic so that they can't have anything slipped in.

Jeez that still sucks though!! I wonder how many people are languishing in prison because of this?

[JoeP]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

It's always a judgement call. There is no standard number of acceptable fuckings in a post. I think you did fine.

There should be a hack to the word filter to allow the first 3 or so uses of a proscribed word and block out the rest. Or the other way round.

In fact, there should be a hack to insert swear words into posts that are too tame.

[Weaselboots]

It's so scary that someone could be killed for carrying pot. Bloody hell, everyone in Australia knows the penalty for drugs in that area. You would have to be bloody stupid to even chance it.

Remember Brian Chambers and Kevin Barlow who were hanged on July 07, 1986 for alleged drug-trafficking of 141.9 grams of heroin.
Ok i was 14 at the time but i still knew their names to look them up. I still don't know how much the Aussie govn. put pressure on, but not enough it seems. The furore has probably healed by now.
I hope we have enough sway to stop them doing this.

THis is from http://www.angelfire.com/stars/dorin...wchambers.html

The then Australian Prime Minister, Robert Hawke, made an eleventh-hour plea for a stay of execution on behalf of the two Australians. The supreme court rejected their appeals. But Mr Hawke caused a diplomatic furore that has never healed, when he labelled Malaysians as, "barbarians" for carrying out the executions.

[MooseIBe]

Wow, they really executed two Aussies? I can imagine how THAT went down! Like I said, Brits caught in these countries tend to just get whopping jail sentences - not that that's all that much better - instead; I guess to avoid diplomatic incidents.

[viscousmemories]

Corby Guilty, gets 20 years

[raspberrybullets]

I'm not surprised by the verdict at all. Unless she can win an appeal, the only thing Australia can do now is hope that Indoenesia is willing to set up a prisoner trade scheme that allows Corby to spend most of her prison sentence here in Australia rather than a Bali prison.

[justaman]

I still think there should be something in our constitution that gives us the right to investigate whether we believe the process of a foreign legal system has been applied appropriately to a domestic citizen. Kinda easier said than done, but I really abhor the PM's "We just have to accept it, we're not allowed to get involved" attitude, when it is quite clear that there has been a miscarriage of justice.

[MooseIBe]

20 years? Bummer! Still it's better than being shot in the head I suppose. I shouldn't imagine she'll actually serve that long.

In this country a woman, Sandra Gregory, was convicted of smuggling heroin into Thailand and sentenced to either 40 or 50 years. She was returned to Britain after about four years and served another three in a British jail and then was released (mind I think she was pardoned.. not sure if the Indonesians go in for that). 7 years is a long time but it's zip compared with 50..