Born Again?

[BDS]

Is Christianity dead in Europe? According to this Wall Street Journal article, there may be a revival:

In Europe, God Is (Not) Dead - WSJ.com

Some of the article’s highlights include a theory about how religious monopolies became complacent, losing their flocks. More religious competition yields more attractive religions:

Some scholars and Christian activists, however, are pushing a more controversial explanation: the laws of economics. As centuries-old churches long favored by the state lose their monopoly grip, Europe's highly regulated market for religion is opening up to leaner, more-aggressive religious "firms." The result, they say, is a supply-side stimulus to faith.

Not everyone agrees:

The notion that Adam Smith's invisible hand reaches into the spiritual realm has many detractors. Steve Bruce, a professor of sociology at Aberdeen University in Scotland, says market theory "works for cars and soap powder but it does not work for religion." Christianity in Europe, he says, has reached the point of no return, like a dying language doomed because too few people transmit its vocabulary to their children.

I gots me a trickle down Jesus!

[Abdul Alhazred]

Was Christianity really ever "dead" in Europe? Or are they just talking about some particular segment of the ruling class?

Sounds like a slow news day to me.

[Stephen Maturin]

In accordance with the universally accepted precept that one should never pass on a chance to cite The Gospel of Supply Side Jesus, here we go.

[Stormlight]

Christianity is pretty much dead in large parts of Europe. However, the often heard idea that it has been replaced by atheism is nonsense. Personally, I know only one or two persons that could possibly be described as (liberal) "Christians", but I also know only a few outright atheists.

Christianity has simply been replaced by new-age mumbo-jumbo: "Heaven and hell don't exist but there is something. This can't be all."

[Watser?]

Exactly Stormlight.

A newspaper columnist here called it Somethingism.

And it is most definitely not limited to the ruling classes, Christianity is as dead among the working classes as it is anywhere else. Though they sometimes manage to stir up some interest in their 'moral values'. Even a close friend of mine who I know IS atheist told me last year that the Ten Commandments were a good thing. He didn't know what was in them though and wasn't too convinced anymore when I told him about not having any other gods and punishing to the third and fourth generation.

[Qingdai]

Something like pretending to be native American? Interpretive dance?
Those may be my two favorite examples that I have seen from a few Germans I have met abroad.

Then there is that Dutch guy who built an ark...

[Watser?]

It is new age/religion a la carte really. I know a girl who retains some of her Catholicism and burns candles for people who are sick or have exams or whatever (my mother used to do that too, to a statuette of a saint), but she also has dreamcatchers around and believes in astrology and tarot, some native American stuff that may or may not be authentic and some Buddhism.

[Qingdai]

Dream catchers!

[Watser?]

Oh, the Dutch guy who built the Ark is probably Dutch reformed. We still have some hardcore Calvinists around here, that still seems to be alive (yet marginal, it is like a lost tribe).

[viscousmemories]

How is 'somethingism' not agnosticism?

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally Posted by Qingdai

Something like pretending to be native American? Interpretive dance?
Those may be my two favorite examples that I have seen from a few Germans I have met abroad.

Then there is that Dutch guy who built an ark...

So no stereotypical nonsense about the stodgy "Old World".

Germany is California.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

How is 'somethingism' not agnosticism?

When someone says "I'm not religious, I'm spiritual", do you say to yourself "Aha! An agnostic."?

[Watser?]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

How is 'somethingism' not agnosticism?

It could be argued that it is, but it is more vague. Agnosticism is a position you reach after thinking about it and weighing the possibilities. Somethingism is being too lazy to really think things through, yet dismissing God and organised religion in general but stubbornly refusing to let go of the idea of an afterlife or a 'meaning of life'.

Originally Posted by Abdul Alhazred

When someone says "I'm not religious, I'm spiritual", do you say to yourself "Aha! An agnostic."?

Also:

[Stormlight]

Originally Posted by Watser?

It could be argued that it is, but it is more vague. Agnosticism is a position you reach after thinking about it and weighing the possibilities. Somethingism is being too lazy to really think things through, yet dismissing God and organised religion in general but stubbornly refusing to let go of the idea of an afterlife or a 'meaning of life'.

An excellent description.

[Ymir's blood]

What do you do with the dreams once you've caught them? It seems cruel to release them out in the wild since they won't have learned how to survive.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally Posted by Watser?

It could be argued that it is, but it is more vague. Agnosticism is a position you reach after thinking about it and weighing the possibilities. Somethingism is being too lazy to really think things through, yet dismissing God and organised religion in general but stubbornly refusing to let go of the idea of an afterlife or a 'meaning of life'.

Also, at least in the USA, the self-described 'agnostic' is often a 'weak atheist' who wants to avoid the negative connotations of 'atheist'.

That is, a homosexual evolutionist who wants to kill babies.


OK maybe I'm exaggerating a little.

[JoeP]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

How is 'somethingism' not agnosticism?

The somethingist believes there has to be something. The agnostic isn't sure ... or, wait, believes you can't be sure ... OK, now I'm confused.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Qingdai

Dream catchers!

Dream catchers are a 20th century spiritual creation of the Ojibwas that has spread to some other tribes. They work as a filter for any bad dreams one might have. Not all Native Americans think dream catchers have any spiritual power. We have several hanging above our bed, but I revere the Tatonka/Buffalo, while my wife likes the idea of dream catcher hanging above us while we sleep. She also has a crucifix and rosary hanging too. At least you can eat the buffalo!

[godfry n. glad]

I've called 'somethingists' 'apathists' for quite some time. Yes, it tends to be 'salad-bar religion' too. Or, 'Chinese menu religion'...y'know, "one from column A, two from column B, one from column C, and a beverage."

It tends to attempt to legitimize all sorts of crackpot ideas, like the hollow-earth theory, crystals, D.P. Ouspensky, tarot cards, auras, Gurdjieff, the Illuminati, Madame Blavatsky, seances and supply side economics.

It's all woo-woo.

And, thanks for the Supply Side Jesus cartoon. It really moved me out there on the Laffer Curve.

[Qingdai]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Dream catchers are a 20th century spiritual creation of the Ojibwas that has spread to some other tribes. They work as a filter for any bad dreams one might have. Not all Native Americans think dream catchers have any spiritual power. We have several hanging above our bed, but I revere the Tatonka/Buffalo, while my wife likes the idea of dream catcher hanging above us while we sleep. She also has a crucifix and rosary hanging too. At least you can eat the buffalo!

I know what dream catchers are, I just find it amusing that someone in Europe adopts them as part of their do-it-yourself religious iconography.
I picture the ones you find for sale on the road sides that are 10 feet tall and made of bright acrylic yarn, probably in China. New age global macrame!

[Abdul Alhazred]

Allowing (nay, requiring) chimeras to be born is weird even for the Roman Catholic Church.

And that's saying plenty.

[Stormlight]

Originally Posted by Qingdai

I know what dream catchers are, I just find it amusing that someone in Europe adopts them as part of their do-it-yourself religious iconography.

Not at all. It's "religion" you can buy and decorate your bedroom with! And you don't have to think about it, afterwards. It's perfect.

[Pendaric]

It depends on which part of Europe you go too. I would agree that it's certainly less common than in the States.

The UK has had a lot of Polish immigrants over the last 2 or 3 years since they joined the EU, and apparantly they are overloading the local Catholic churches because they are nearly all active Catholics. Catholicism has overtaken Anglicanism to become the largest religion in the UK because of this.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/S...978044,00.html

[Watser?]

Poland is extreme in that even for the former communist countries. Czechs, Slovaks, Hungarians etc. are not nearly as religious as the Poles.