Chicago Lawyer vs Marines.

[California Tanker]

I've been following this on BlackFive.

Cliff Notes:

Marine Sgt Mike McNulty is on activation orders to Iraq (second tour). On December 1st, 2007, Mike went to visit a friend in Chicago before deploying to say goodbye. In order to get to his friend's residence, and keep in mind that Chicago is a myriad of diagonal and one-way streets, the front entrance (right way) to the one-way street was blocked. Mike, being a Marine, overcame and adapted by driving around the block to the other end of the street and backing up all the way to his friend's place.

While saying goodbye, at about 11am, he noticed a man leaning up against his car. Mike left his friend's apartment and caught the man keying his car on multiple sides

After caught in the process, the man told Mike, "you think you can do whatever you want with Department of Defense license plates and tags". (In Illinois you can purchase veteran, Marine, or medal plates. Mike has Illinois Marine Corps license plates.) During the exchange, he made additional anti-military comments.

As it turns out, the man is Chicago lawyer Jay R. Grodner, who owns a law firm in the city and has offices in the suburbs.

After sending the car to the body shop, it was determined there is $2400 in damage, making this a felony. Mike went to court Friday morning to collect the damages against Mr. Grodner and file felony charges. Though the damages are over $300 (the amount which determines felony or misdemeanor) Grodner offered Mike to pay his deductible, $100, and have Mike's insurance pay for it.

The Illinois States Attorneys tried to coerce Mike into accepting the offer. Appalled, Mike said he wanted this to be a felony. The state told Mike that it was not worth pursuing felony damage against Grodner because they don't have the time. In addition, the state prosecutors told him that it 'would be difficult to recover the damages' from Grodner because he is a lawyer.

Instead, the State asked Mike if he would accept probation for Grodner. Mike accepted, probation was offered to Grodner, and Grodner declined the offer, saying within ear shot of Mike, "I'm not going to make it easy on this kid".

OK, so that set the stage. It got picked up by BlackFive,and then whirled its happy way around the Blogosphere, to the extent that the State's Attorney had a change of heart and decided it was going to vigorously pursue the issue. (Incidently, the Blogosphere also managed to find said lawyer's internet personal, stating that he likes sex a lot). Lawyer has a slight history.

In 1978, he was an Assistant State's Attorney and, along with four other attorneys, forged names to petition for a state referendum.
In 1979, he was found guilty of election law misdemeanor, place on probation for 6 months and fined $ 1,000.
In 1984, he was censured by the Illinois Supreme Court for that misconduct (Five years? IL works quick...)

In any case, it gets to court, the laywer gets off to a good start by not showing up.

Jay R Grodner was called before court and in his absence, the Judge issued a warrant for his arrest effective immediately. Sgt McNulty was departing the court when Grodner rolled in to the courtroom more pathetic than anyone I had ever seen. The Judge had questioned him on his tardiness and he explained that traffic had been busy and he 'made a wrong turn'. The Judge chastised him for his tardiness, pathetic excuses, and that he was lucky the warrant had not been executed prior to his arrival.

Anyway, cue the second showing in court, and the genius decides to be late again. Transcript is at BLACKFIVE: Anti-Military Lawyer In Court Tomorrow Today, and he gets arrested. It probably didn't help his case that the prosecutor was a Marine, and so was the Judge.

THE SHERIFF: Put your hands behind your

12 back.

13 THE DEFENDANT: Jesus Christ.

14 THE COURT: You're the Defendant, sir. You're

15 in custody. You have to behave as such.

Newspaper picked it up.
Man who keyed car gets day in court; so do Marines -- chicagotribune.com

Apparently he's going to France to get away from it all for a bit. Shining example of legal ethics there...

NTM

[Deadlokd]

Ha. Dickhead. Never mind that the victim was a Marine, what kind of moron keys a car and then thinks he can get away with it?

If I was the lawyer though I'd be asking the Judge and Prosecutor to recuse themselves. Conflict of interest and all that.

[Javaman]

Originally Posted by Deadlokd

If I was the lawyer though I'd be asking the Judge and Prosecutor to recuse themselves. Conflict of interest and all that.

I don't think that's germane. That'd be like asking them to recuse themselves if both they and the defendant were once Boy Scouts.

[BrotherMan]

I'm not so sure. Aren't there unwritten codes that Marines follow? Once a Marine, always a Marine type things? (YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!)

[Ensign Steve]

Well if you're going to take that dogmatic approach, their first core value is Honor. We could expect the Judge and Prosecutor to act with honor in this case.

[Dingfod]

If the defendant hadn't pleaded guilty he might have grounds for appeal. He still might, but as Senator Widestance Craig is finding out, it's damn hard to change a plea to innocent.

It's kind of sad when a mewling jackass getting his comeuppance is rare enough to be newsworthy.

[Adam]

Not that I wouldn't be tempted, upon seeing some jackass back all the way down a one way street, to key his car, what kind of moron actually carries through on those impulses? I'd also do whatever I could to legally fuck with a guy who keyed my car, so I'm not at all surprised that McNulty is pressing for a felony.

I agree re: asking the judge and prosecutor to recuse themselves. They're essentially former colleagues of the plaintiff. If that's not a conflict of interest, I don't know what is.

Here's an interesting thing I noticed when scrolling back up to find the last name of the plaintiff. In the quoted material, he is identified by his full name once and, thereafter, is identified by his first name ("Mike") 14 times, and his last name only once (and with his title, "Sgt." affixed). The defendant is identified by his full name twice, his last name alone 8 times (never with any title affixed), and never by his first name alone.

Originally Posted by Adam

I agree re: asking the judge and prosecutor to recuse themselves. They're essentially former colleagues of the plaintiff. If that's not a conflict of interest, I don't know what is.

Unless they were active together in the same unit, that's too much of a stretch.

[California Tanker]

Originally Posted by Adam

I agree re: asking the judge and prosecutor to recuse themselves. They're essentially former colleagues of the plaintiff. If that's not a conflict of interest, I don't know what is.

Considering how many people in the country were once in the military service for a period of time, I think for practical purposes you need to have some greater link than just "Wore the same uniform in different decades." Otherwise the judge might find himself unable to try anyone! At any rate, there is no indication that the judge acted improperly.

Here's an interesting thing I noticed when scrolling back up to find the last name of the plaintiff. In the quoted material, he is identified by his full name once and, thereafter, is identified by his first name ("Mike") 14 times, and his last name only once (and with his title, "Sgt." affixed). The defendant is identified by his full name twice, his last name alone 8 times (never with any title affixed), and never by his first name alone.

Not surprising. BlackFive is a pretty popular MilBlog (Black 5 being the call-sign of a company XO), the story was brought to attention in the form of a submission by a reader who knew the Marine in question personally, as opposed to by BlackFive himself. Much of it is just copy/paste from the submitter, who was physically present for many of the proceedings.

NTM

[Adam]

I dunno...look at the posters on BlackFive there. Would you say they're biased in favor of the plaintiff here? How many of them were active in the same unit? every ex-Marine I've ever met has had a fairly strong attitude of solidarity with other Marines, ex or otherwise.

ETA: The above was in response to Uthgar, CT posted while I was typing.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by California Tanker

Considering how many people in the country were once in the military service for a period of time, I think for practical purposes you need to have some greater link than just "Wore the same uniform in different decades." Otherwise the judge might find himself unable to try anyone! At any rate, there is no indication that the judge acted improperly.

For most cases, I'd agree. Given that this case is related to an offense apparently targeted at someone specifically because he served in the military, I'd say that ex-military court officials are a potential source of bias and I'd ask them to recuse themselves if I were defending.

No, I don't think there's any indication that the judge acted improperly (not that there's much wiggle room anyway...you keyed a car, you jackass!), but I'd still take that route if it were me facing charges.

[1Samuel8]

I think this is all bullshit.
A $2400 auto shop bill turns into a state-financed greasing to uphold the slighted ego of a marine. Some justice system!

This is not the first car to be keyed.
This is not the only "crime" in the world.
Ultimately, expensive statesmen were paid shit-loads of money on a publicity stunt.

Everything is bullshit when it's not you, but I don't expect that tidbit will fall on fertile ground.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by 1Samuel8

I think this is all bullshit.
A $2400 auto shop bill turns into a state-financed greasing to uphold the slighted ego of a marine. Some justice system!

This is not the first car to be keyed.
This is not the only "crime" in the world.
Ultimately, expensive statesmen were paid shit-loads of money on a publicity stunt.

If you're arguing that all such incidents, not merely those that involve members of the military, should be treated with the same level of seriousness, then I agree.

That's not what you're arguing, of course, but if it were then I'd agree.

[1Samuel8]

Originally Posted by Adam

That's not what you're arguing, of course, but if it were then I'd agree.

In that case, I am pleased to have enlightened you on how our justice system is bullshit.

[California Tanker]

Originally Posted by Adam

For most cases, I'd agree. Given that this case is related to an offense apparently targeted at someone specifically because he served in the military, I'd say that ex-military court officials are a potential source of bias and I'd ask them to recuse themselves if I were defending.

OK, I see where you're going, it's a valid point.

[ETA: However, as I think about it, I guess there's a corollary. What if it was a case of a racially-motivated crime, would they need to find a judge who was not of the race of either the defendant or the victim? Or worse, if it were a rape, would they want to find a judge who was neither a male nor a female? I wonder what the rules are for recusing, surely they would be such that a judge believes himself/herself to be too emotionally attached to the issue at heart to have full confidence in his/her own impartiality?]

NTM

[yguy]

After caught in the process, the man told Mike, "you think you can do whatever you want with Department of Defense license plates and tags".

What I'd like to know is why this doesn't qualify as a hate crime. Is it because it springs from a hatred of something as trivial as America rather than something really important like Islam or homosexuality?

[Watser?]

Both of them are assholes. I say let's have them fight to the death in a large arena and in front of tv cameras

[Adam]

Originally Posted by California Tanker

[ETA: However, as I think about it, I guess there's a corollary. What if it was a case of a racially-motivated crime, would they need to find a judge who was not of the race of either the defendant or the victim? Or worse, if it were a rape, would they want to find a judge who was neither a male nor a female? I wonder what the rules are for recusing, surely they would be such that a judge believes himself/herself to be too emotionally attached to the issue at heart to have full confidence in his/her own impartiality?]

I don't know, and I was thinking about that, too, after I posted earlier.

From my own observations, I seem to see more solidarity between Marines in general, than say, women in general, men in general, white people in general, etc. so, by my subjective assessment, I'd be more worried about bias in situations where that particular solidarity came into play. I have no idea how to measure that objectively. I'm sure there's some degree to which that solidarity is inculcated as part of creating a more effective military.

None of which changes the fact that, were I the defense lawyer, I'd scream bloody murder about bias.

[California Tanker]

I say let's have them fight to the death in a large arena and in front of tv cameras

My money's on the Marine.

What the hell is a Transmet, and why does he have three eyes?

NTM

[Adam]

Originally Posted by yguy

What I'd like to know is why this doesn't qualify as a hate crime. Is it because it springs from a hatred of something as trivial as America rather than something really important like Islam or homosexuality?

What I'd like to know is when "[individuals with] Department of Defense license plates and tags" became synonymous with "America".

[Watser?]

Originally Posted by California Tanker

My money's on the Marine.

Hmm, yeah it's not exactly a thrilling contest in that sense...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by California Tanker

What the hell is a Transmet, and why does he have three eyes?

Transmetropolitan is the comicbook series from which my Spider Jerusalem avatar comes. In the comic, there's a group called the Transient Movement, essentially humans who graft alien DNA onto their own in order to change species, whose symbol is a three-eyed smiley face, which became iconic in the series, so liv was kind enough to set us Transmet fans up with a full array of three-eyed smileys.

Originally Posted by Adam

Transmetropolitan is the comicbook series from which my Spider Jerusalem avatar comes. In the comic, there's a group called the Transient Movement, essentially humans who graft alien DNA onto their own in order to change species, whose symbol is a three-eyed smiley face, which became iconic in the series, so liv was kind enough to set us Transmet fans up with a full array of three-eyed smileys.

And is one of the Best Comic Series Ever Written. Seriously.