Shoes Made Specifically For Sneaking Across Border

[Legs]

The high-top-sneakers cost $215 at a San Diego boutique, but the designer is giving them away to migrants before they cross to the United States.

These are no ordinary shoes.

A compass and flashlight dangle from one shoelace.

The pocket in the tongue is for money or pain relievers.

A rough map of the border region is printed on a removable insole.

They are red, white and green, the colors of the Mexican flag.

On the back ankle, a drawing of Mexico's patron saint of migrants.

[BracesForImpact]

The toes need to be pointy - better for climbing chain link fences.

[alphamale]

I'd arrest whoever is involved for conspiracy to break the immigration laws.

[erimir]

How is that a conspiracy?

Would anyone selling those items individually be guilty of it?

[alphamale]

Originally Posted by erimir

How is that a conspiracy?

Would anyone selling those items individually be guilty of it?

Two or more people (here, the seller and the buyer) implicitly agree to commit a crime. The shoes in question actually contain maps showing the principal illegal alien paths. The purpose of the shoes is specifically to break the law.

[Corona688]

I'm actually in agreement with alphamale on this one...

[Clutch Munny]

No, the shoes make it possible to break the law. They might also be useful for citizens wishing to patrol the border as individuals and report any illegal immigrants they spot. The shoes would make a funny joke. They might be great conversation pieces, or just plain comfortable. End of story.

Of course, if what you mean is that the things may too often be used to break the law, or are sold with the full expectation that harm will be done using them, then I'll be happy to see you campaigning also for criminal charges against firearms manufacturers...

[Legs]

Seriously, if you wanted to sneak into another country ~ wouldn't ya wanna, I don't know .. blend in and not draw attention to yourself?

[alphamale]

Originally Posted by Clutch Munny

No, the shoes make it possible to break the law. They might also be useful for citizens wishing to patrol the border as individuals and report any illegal immigrants they spot. The shoes would make a funny joke. They might be great conversation pieces, or just plain comfortable. End of story.

Of course, if what you mean is that the things may too often be used to break the law, or are sold with the full expectation that harm will be done using them, then I'll be happy to see you campaigning also for criminal charges against firearms manufacturers...

Uh, you're confused. It's like saying possessing drug paraphenalia for "great conversation pieces". Guns can be used for legal purposes, whereas maps to enter the U.S. illegally have only one purpose - to enter the U.S. illegally. It's the maps, not the shoes they're in.

[ChuckF]

Originally Posted by alphamale

Guns can be used for legal purposes, whereas maps to enter the U.S. illegally have only one purpose - to enter the U.S. illegally. It's the maps, not the shoes they're in.

Map possession is not illegal. Can US citizens have these maps, since they obviously won't be entering the US illegally? Which parts of the border region are classified? What constitutes a map? Sketch of the Rio Grande on a napkin?

[Corona688]

Originally Posted by ChuckF

Map possession is not illegal. Can US citizens have these maps, since they obviously won't be entering the US illegally? Which parts of the border region are classified? What constitutes a map? Sketch of the Rio Grande on a napkin?

I don't think possession of the shoes is necessarily a crime, the same way that simple possession of most any other footwear isn't necessarily a crime. It's their creator willingly giving them away to people who obviously intend to commit crimes with them, that's the problem. He only gives them away free to people who intend to commit illegal border crossings. Obviously he'd have to know.

If you willingly obtain a gun for someone else who has obvious intent to kill someone else with it, is that not conspiracy to commit murder? If you willingly obtain tools and maps for someone who obviously intends an illegal border crossing, is this not conspiracy to commit an illegal border crossing? Note that neither participant is being forced to participate, and both have knowledge of the intended crime.

[Clutch Munny]

What does obviously intending to commit a crime look like? Is it like selling a gun to a greasy-scumbag-looking sort of person?

What sort of maps are illegal? Hiking maps of the border region?

[Corona688]

Originally Posted by Clutch Munny

What does obviously intending to commit a crime look like? Is it like selling a gun to a greasy-scumbag-looking sort of person?

It's not that someone looks like they're going to commit a crime. It's that someone says they're going to commit a crime. You don't get your free pair of border-running shoes without telling him you want to run the border. What the person looks like, is irrelevant.

On the other hand, if they stated no intent and just bought these shoes, it couldn't be called conspiracy.

[alphamale]

Originally Posted by ChuckF

Map possession is not illegal.

I didn't say map possession is illegal. Sale of them should be illegal because they are evidence of a conspiracy.

[godfry n. glad]

Hmmm...

If we accept alfalfasmell's premise, then we should also be focusing on the manufacturers, distributors, retailers and customers who buy radar detection units for personal vehicles. So far as I can tell, their only purpose is to allow the vehicle owner to break the speed laws, thereby endangering life, limb and property unnecessarily.

I could go for that.

Come to think of it, it should also include cellphones sold by outfits like "Car Toys". They should be held liable for every cellphone sold that results in the injury or death of anybody hit while one of their customers was driving while using the cellphone.

[alphamale]

What does obviously intending to commit a crime look like?

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? E.g. possessing a large amount of narcotics is evidence of intending to traffic.

[Corona688]

Originally Posted by alphamale

I didn't say map possession is illegal. Sale of them should be illegal because they are evidence of a conspiracy.

I think that's taking it a bit too far. They're only evidence of a conspiracy, when a conspiracy is actually happening. Maps have legitimate uses and aren't exactly controlled items, the drug analogy doesn't work. Moreover, people are presumed innocent until proven guilty, and it's extremely hard to prove intent.

The guy giving away these shoes, though, has created a unique situation -- the people with the free shoes have already stated their intent to commit a crime with these shoes, and wouldn't get them free if they didn't.

[viscousmemories]

Incidentally there's a more comprehensive article here. I read several other articles too and didn't find any evidence that the artist demanded any assurance that the benefactors intended to attempt a border crossing. However she did say that her stance is that many of the migrants in the shelters she visited would be doing so anyway, so they might as well have good shoes. About 1/3 of the shoes that have been made so far have already been sold on this side of the border, presumably mostly to collectors.

[Corona688]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

Incidentally there's a more comprehensive article here. I read several other articles too and didn't find any evidence that the artist demanded any assurance that the benefactors intended to attempt a border crossing. However she did say that her stance is that many of the migrants in the shelters she visited would be doing so anyway, so they might as well have good shoes.

Kind of an odd stance to my mind. Not sure it passes the smell test. Good shoes for the needy is one thing, but good shoes specifically equipped to aid illegal border crossings?

I may be mistaken about conspiracy then, at least about it being definite conspiracy. She's certainly giving the finger to immigration laws in any case. Whether or not those are laws that should be broken isn't something I'm terribly qualified to discuss.

[Clutch Munny]

Originally Posted by alphamale

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? E.g. possessing a large amount of narcotics is evidence of intending to traffic.

Please try not to interfere with the big people's discussion, or no Game Boy for you.

Corona688 worried that the woman was giving the shoes to "people who obviously intend to commit crimes with them". What distinguishes these people from others who might take the shoes for any number of plausible non-criminal reasons? In what, particularly, is this criminal intention manifest? So far your answer seems to be: in taking the shoes. (I mean, there's, like, a map in them!)

Corona688 is not a buffoon, and hence does not give your answer.

[Clutch Munny]

Originally Posted by Corona688

It's not that someone looks like they're going to commit a crime. It's that someone says they're going to commit a crime. You don't get your free pair of border-running shoes without telling him you want to run the border. What the person looks like, is irrelevant.

On the other hand, if they stated no intent and just bought these shoes, it couldn't be called conspiracy.

It would be a more reasonable worry, if the people really did have to declare an intention to run the border in order to get the shoes. But I don't see that suggestion in the article. From the facts as spelled out there, I can't see grounds for conspiracy charges. Charges for artistic grandstanding may well be warranted, though.

[Abdul Alhazred]

C'mon. This is a publicity stunt.

[Shake]

They are red, white and green, the colors of the Mexican flag. On the back ankle, a drawing of Mexico's patron saint of migrants.

Ought to make it easy to track down the illegal immigrants and deport them.

[Carlos]

The News at South America made emphasis on the cost of the China prodution of the merchandise and the final cost in USA .

$17 ( China) vs $ 215 (USA).

This topic was also part of the concept the Artist wanted to express by designing the shoes and the reason why she gave the shoes free to the inmigrants.

Oh , and the courage of the artist to do it.

Bravo!

Thanks,
Carlos

[Legs]

Carlos, you don't need shoes like that in Jersey.