"We are not against any particular religion in the world. But in Afghanistan, this sort of thing is against the law," the judge said. "It is an attack on Islam."
__________________ Old Pain In The Ass says: I am on a mission from God to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable; to bring faith to the doubtful and doubt to the faithful.
Depressing. I never supported the invasion of Afghanistan, but I did hope that at least we'd see an end to this kind of thing after the Taliban were kicked out of Kabul.
"We are not against any particular religion in the world. But in Afghanistan, this sort of thing is against the law," the judge said. "It is an attack on Islam."
Ah, the old "we're not bigots, we just forbid X" gambit.
"For that which you mention concerning liberty of conscience, I meddle not with any man's conscience. But if by liberty of conscience you mean a liberty to exercise the mass, I judge it best to use plain dealing and to let you know, where the Parliament of England have power that will not be allowed of."
-- Oliver Cromwell, to the (Catholic) governor of Ross, Ireland.
Depressing. I never supported the invasion of Afghanistan, but I did hope that at least we'd see an end to this kind of thing after the Taliban were kicked out of Kabul.
Look at how much more freedom they have in Afghanistan thanks to Bush! Just wonderful!
But I would agree that they're not against any particular religion, and it's not anti-Christian bigotry, per se. He would get the death penalty for converting to ANY different religion, so it's not directed at Christianity. And it is against converting from Islam, not against being non-Muslim. It is, however, still a gross violation of human rights.
It really is disgusting, considering that at minimum, I would hope that things like basic freedom of religion, speech, etc. would be on the agenda of things to introduce into the government in Afghanistan and Iraq. After all, we are supposed to be spreading freedom, and ensuring such human rights would at least be something good that could come of these wars... But looks like a reversion to oppressive government is a real possibility in both countries, which would make things a complete failure.
Depressing. I never supported the invasion of Afghanistan, but I did hope that at least we'd see an end to this kind of thing after the Taliban were kicked out of Kabul.
I did support the invasion, but I had no hopes that we'd see an end to this sort of thing. Afghanistan doesn't have much of a secular power base, and the only time it had anything like secular government was when the Soviets were in charge. Many of the Islamist mujihadeen who kicked out the Soviets were from abroad, but many more were native Afghans.
It really is disgusting, considering that at minimum, I would hope that things like basic freedom of religion, speech, etc. would be on the agenda of things to introduce into the government in Afghanistan and Iraq. After all, we are supposed to be spreading freedom, and ensuring such human rights would at least be something good that could come of these wars.
I really don't think human rights can be introduced by force from the outside.
I did support the invasion, but I had no hopes that we'd see an end to this sort of thing. Afghanistan doesn't have much of a secular power base, and the only time it had anything like secular government was when the Soviets were in charge. Many of the Islamist mujihadeen who kicked out the Soviets were from abroad, but many more were native Afghans.
Indeed many were, but that doesn't mean they represent the majority attutude. From the little I've read I've gained the impression that Shariah law and fundamentalist Islam doesn't in fact have a long tradition in Afghanistan, instead Sufism has been more influential, which focuses more on mystical and personal aspects of religion rather than establishing a theocratic state with religious punishments. It's an area I don't know nearly enough about, but this wikipedia article seems to back up my impression of the Taliban as a movement fairly unprecedented in Afghan history.
I think you're right about the history, but I also think the Soviet occupation polarized people much as the Shah's rule polarized people in Iran. The hardline Islamists were the ones doing the bulk of the fighting against the Soviets so they got popular support.
I think you're right about the history, but I also think the Soviet occupation polarized people much as the Shah's rule polarized people in Iran. The hardline Islamists were the ones doing the bulk of the fighting against the Soviets so they got popular support.
Quite likely. Nonetheless I did have some hopes that the support wouldn't be so ingrained as to continue indefinitely under a post-Taliban government, and that the judiciary wouldn't continue to hand out death penalties for religious crimes. Small hope perhaps, but the Taliban were so goddawful that even a run-of-the-mill despicable regime would be an improvement.
A bit off-topic, but I'm curious as to why you supported the invasion when you had no hopes of improvement in Afghanistan. To get bin Laden?
A bit off-topic, but I'm curious as to why you supported the invasion when you had no hopes of improvement in Afghanistan. To get bin Laden?
Yep. And also to provide disincentive to other national governments that might turn a blind eye to al Qaeda leaders and training camps in their territory.
Have you actually got something relevant to say about that statement Adora?
Yes. As is obvious by many quotes from individuals living in Afghanistan before, during, and after the invasion, the powers ruling the country now are just the Taliban by another name. The Western puppets in their enclaves in Khabul are the extreme minority in the game.
Have you actually got something relevant to say about that statement Adora?
Yes. As is obvious by many quotes from individuals living in Afghanistan before, during, and after the invasion, the powers ruling the country now are just the Taliban by another name. The Western puppets in their enclaves in Khabul are the extreme minority in the game.
Wouldn't surprise me. I said "kicked out of Kabul", not "kicked out of power" for a reason.
Still, I don't see that having hoped for better is completely laughable, even if there wasn't much reason to expect it - but I guess that depends on how high your level of cynicism is. I try to keep mine from growing too large.
The LA Times and other American papers are saying he's being released because the case was dismissed. I wonder if that's accurate, since the BBC article didn't say so.
According to a Fox news broadcast this morning the charges have been dismissed for lack of evidence. Isn't that the ultimate irony? Get charged with being a Christian then have the charges dropped for lack of evidence that one is actually a Christian!
__________________ Old Pain In The Ass says: I am on a mission from God to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable; to bring faith to the doubtful and doubt to the faithful.
It's a distraction. Whether or not you agree with their justice system, there is still no right to be there. Oh, except for pipelines and proximity to oil. All this does is help sway those who sit on the fence into thinking that maybe it is better that you're there to bring them civilization....as they sink further away from it with no end in sight.
Taliban, American...a fundie is a fundie. Murdering self-righteous bastards who love herding the sheep.
I don't know about that. Afghanistan is far less controversial. Plenty of countries are in Afghanistan that won't associate themselves with the Iraq jaunt.
NTM
__________________
A man only needs two tools in life. WD-40 and duct tape. If it moves and it shouldn't, use the duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40.
I know there are Canucks getting rich through these conflicts. All member of America's empire are. Still, some have to keep up appearances and Iraq is a bit too raw and close to the truth for some of America's pussy allies.
I know there are Canucks getting rich through these conflicts. All member of America's empire are. Still, some have to keep up appearances and Iraq is a bit too raw and close to the truth for some of America's pussy allies.
michael
France, Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, Ireland are all part of America's empire? How about Finland, Denmark, Iceland and Norway? Estonia? Belgium? New Zealand?
They're all in Afghanistan. As are plenty more countries. You're being just a tad cynical, I think.
NTM
__________________
A man only needs two tools in life. WD-40 and duct tape. If it moves and it shouldn't, use the duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40.
Can anyone spell tolerance?
A republic, not an empire.
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