If America Left Iraq

[Sauron]

This is some of the most cogent, clear-headed thinking on Iraq that I have read in a long time. Which pretty much guarantees that the Bush administration will do the opposite.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200512/iraq-withdrawal

If America Left Iraq

by Nir Rosen
The Atlantic Monthly
December 15, 2005

At some point—whether sooner or later—U.S. troops will leave Iraq. I have spent much of the occupation reporting from Baghdad, Kirkuk, Mosul, Fallujah, and elsewhere in the country, and I can tell you that a growing majority of Iraqis would like it to be sooner. As the occupation wears on, more and more Iraqis chafe at its failure to provide stability or even electricity, and they have grown to hate the explosions, gunfire, and constant war, and also the daily annoyances: having to wait hours in traffic because the Americans have closed off half the city; having to sit in that traffic behind a U.S. military vehicle pointing its weapons at them; having to endure constant searches and arrests. Before the January 30 elections this year the Association of Muslim Scholars—Iraq's most important Sunni Arab body, and one closely tied to the indigenous majority of the insurgency—called for a commitment to a timely U.S. withdrawal as a condition for its participation in the vote. (In exchange the association promised to rein in the resistance.) It's not just Sunnis who have demanded a withdrawal: the Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, who is immensely popular among the young and the poor, has made a similar demand. So has the mainstream leader of the Shiites' Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, Abdel Aziz al-Hakim, who made his first call for U.S. withdrawal as early as April 23, 2003.

If the people the U.S. military is ostensibly protecting want it to go, why do the soldiers stay? The most common answer is that it would be irresponsible for the United States to depart before some measure of peace has been assured. The American presence, this argument goes, is the only thing keeping Iraq from an all-out civil war that could take millions of lives and would profoundly destabilize the region. But is that really the case? Let's consider the key questions surrounding the prospect of an imminent American withdrawal.

Would the withdrawal of U.S. troops ignite a civil war between Sunnis and Shiites?

No. That civil war is already under way—in large part because of the American presence. The longer the United States stays, the more it fuels Sunni hostility toward Shiite "collaborators." Were America not in Iraq, Sunni leaders could negotiate and participate without fear that they themselves would be branded traitors and collaborators by their constituents. Sunni leaders have said this in official public statements; leaders of the resistance have told me the same thing in private. The Iraqi government, which is currently dominated by Shiites, would lose its quisling stigma. Iraq's security forces, also primarily Shiite, would no longer be working on behalf of foreign infidels against fellow Iraqis, but would be able to function independently and recruit Sunnis to a truly national force. The mere announcement of an intended U.S. withdrawal would allow Sunnis to come to the table and participate in defining the new Iraq.

But if American troops aren't in Baghdad, what's to stop the Sunnis from launching an assault and seizing control of the city?

Sunni forces could not mount such an assault. The preponderance of power now lies with the majority Shiites and the Kurds, and the Sunnis know this. Sunni fighters wield only small arms and explosives, not Saddam's tanks and helicopters, and are very weak compared with the cohesive, better armed, and numerically superior Shiite and Kurdish militias. Most important, Iraqi nationalism—not intramural rivalry—is the chief motivator for both Shiites and Sunnis. Most insurgency groups view themselves as waging a muqawama—a resistance—rather than a jihad. This is evident in their names and in their propaganda. For instance, the units commanded by the Association of Muslim Scholars are named after the 1920 revolt against the British. Others have names such as Iraqi Islamic Army and Flame of Iraq. They display the Iraqi flag rather than a flag of jihad. Insurgent attacks are meant primarily to punish those who have collaborated with the Americans and to deter future collaboration.

Wouldn't a U.S. withdrawal embolden the insurgency?

No. If the occupation were to end, so, too, would the insurgency. After all, what the resistance movement has been resisting is the occupation. Who would the insurgents fight if the enemy left? When I asked Sunni Arab fighters and the clerics who support them why they were fighting, they all gave me the same one-word answer: intiqaam—revenge. Revenge for the destruction of their homes, for the shame they felt when Americans forced them to the ground and stepped on them, for the killing of their friends and relatives by U.S. soldiers either in combat or during raids.

But what about the foreign jihadi element of the resistance? Wouldn't it be empowered by a U.S. withdrawal?

The foreign jihadi element—commanded by the likes of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi—is numerically insignificant; the bulk of the resistance has no connection to al-Qaeda or its offshoots. (Zarqawi and his followers have benefited greatly from U.S. propaganda blaming him for all attacks in Iraq, because he is now seen by Arabs around the world as more powerful than he is; we have been his best recruiting tool.) It is true that the Sunni resistance welcomed the foreign fighters (and to some extent still do), because they were far more willing to die than indigenous Iraqis were. But what Zarqawi wants fundamentally conflicts with what Iraqi Sunnis want: Zarqawi seeks re-establishment of the Muslim caliphate and a Manichean confrontation with infidels around the world, to last until Judgment Day; the mainstream Iraqi resistance just wants the Americans out. If U.S. forces were to leave, the foreigners in Zarqawi's movement would find little support—and perhaps significant animosity—among Iraqi Sunnis, who want wealth and power, not jihad until death. They have already lost much of their support: many Iraqis have begun turning on them. In the heavily Shia Sadr City foreign jihadis had burning tires placed around their necks. The foreigners have not managed to establish themselves decisively in any large cities. Even at the height of their power in Fallujah they could control only one neighborhood, the Julan, and they were hated by the city's resistance council. Today foreign fighters hide in small villages and are used opportunistically by the nationalist resistance.

When the Americans depart and Sunnis join the Iraqi government, some of the foreign jihadis in Iraq may try to continue the struggle—but they will have committed enemies in both Baghdad and the Shiite south, and the entire Sunni triangle will be against them. They will have nowhere to hide. Nor can they merely take their battle to the West. The jihadis need a failed state like Iraq in which to operate. When they leave Iraq, they will be hounded by Arab and Western security agencies.

What about the Kurds? Won't they secede if the United States leaves?

Yes, but that's going to happen anyway. All Iraqi Kurds want an independent Kurdistan. They do not feel Iraqi. They've effectively had more than a decade of autonomy, thanks to the UN-imposed no-fly zone; they want nothing to do with the chaos that is Iraq. Kurdish independence is inevitable—and positive. (Few peoples on earth deserve a state more than the Kurds.) For the moment the Kurdish government in the north is officially participating in the federalist plan—but the Kurds are preparing for secession. They have their own troops, the peshmerga, thought to contain 50,000 to 100,000 fighters. They essentially control the oil city of Kirkuk. They also happen to be the most America-loving people I have ever met; their leaders openly seek to become, like Israel, a proxy for American interests. If what the United States wants is long-term bases in the region, the Kurds are its partners.

Would Turkey invade in response to a Kurdish secession?

For the moment Turkey is more concerned with EU membership than with Iraq's Kurds—who in any event have expressed no ambitions to expand into Turkey. Iraq's Kurds speak a dialect different from Turkey's, and, in fact, have a history of animosity toward Turkish Kurds. Besides, Turkey, as a member of NATO, would be reluctant to attack in defiance of the United States. Turkey would be satisfied with guarantees that it would have continued access to Kurdish oil and trade and that Iraqi Kurds would not incite rebellion in Turkey.

Would Iran effectively take over Iraq?

No. Iraqis are fiercely nationalist—even the country's Shiites resent Iranian meddling. (It is true that some Iraqi Shiites view Iran as an ally, because many of their leaders found safe haven there when exiled by Saddam—but thousands of other Iraqi Shiites experienced years of misery as prisoners of war in Iran.) Even in southeastern towns near the border I encountered only hostility toward Iran.

What about the goal of creating a secular democracy in Iraq that respects the rights of women and non-Muslims?

Give it up. It's not going to happen. Apart from the Kurds, who revel in their secularism, Iraqis overwhelmingly seek a Muslim state. Although Iraq may have been officially secular during the 1970s and 1980s, Saddam encouraged Islamism during the 1990s, and the difficulties of the past decades have strengthened the resurgence of Islam. In the absence of any other social institutions, the mosques and the clergy assumed the dominant role in Iraq following the invasion. Even Baathist resistance leaders told me they have returned to Islam to atone for their sins under Saddam. Most Shiites, too, follow one cleric or another. Ayatollah al-Sistani—supposedly a moderate—wants Islam to be the source of law. The invasion of Iraq has led to a theocracy, which can only grow more hostile to America as long as U.S. soldiers are present.

Does Iraqi history offer any lessons?

The British occupation of Iraq, in the first half of the twentieth century, may be instructive. The British faced several uprisings and coups. The Iraqi government, then as now, was unable to suppress the rebels on its own and relied on the occupying military. In 1958, when the government the British helped install finally fell, those who had collaborated with them could find no popular support; some, including the former prime minister Nuri Said, were murdered and mutilated. Said had once been a respected figure, but he became tainted by his collaboration with the British. That year, when revolutionary officers overthrew the government, Said disguised himself as a woman and tried to escape. He was discovered, shot in the head, and buried. The next day a mob dug up his corpse and dragged it through the street—an act that would be repeated so often in Iraq that it earned its own word: sahil. With the British-sponsored government gone, both Sunni and Shiite Arabs embraced the Iraqi identity. The Kurds still resent the British perfidy that made them part of Iraq.

What can the United States do to repair Iraq?

There is no panacea. Iraq is a destroyed and fissiparous country. Iranians and Saudis I've spoken to worry that it might be impossible to keep Iraq from disintegrating. But they agree that the best hope of avoiding this scenario is if the United States leaves; perhaps then Iraqi nationalism will keep at least the Arabs united. The sooner America withdraws and allows Iraqis to assume control of their own country, the better the chances that Prime Minister Ibrahim Jaafari won't face sahil. It may be decades before Iraq recovers from the current maelstrom. By then its borders may be different, its vaunted secularism a distant relic. But a continued U.S. occupation can only get in the way.

Copyright 2005 The Atlantic Monthly Group.

[California Tanker]

There was a pretty good programme on PBS two nights ago that I caught in the hotel room about the insurgency, and the reasons they fight. They had reporters interview them, and tag along, etc. It's available as an online stream, I'd watch it if you have the time.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/insurgency/

It makes things seem a little more complicated than that six-month-old article would appear to suggest. An interesting interview was with a Sunni army officer who thought the US really did need to stay for a while longer, because bad though things may be right now, it is infinitely preferable to what would happen otherwise. In other cases in the last 15-20 years, from the Balkans, East Timor, and whatnot when there have been genocides and other forms of civil war, there have been calls to send the military in to quell the fighting. Why would such not happen if the coalition forces pulled out and Iraq started its own genocides?

NTM

[Godless Dave]

But in this case we caused the fighting and are participating in it.

[California Tanker]

We're not participating a the civil war. There are two fights going on at the same time. The "Everyone vs the Invaders" fight, and the fighting between the various groups within Iraq. The two are separate and the second is quite capable of going on without the presence of the Coalition forces.

NTM

[Dingfod]

Originally Posted by California Tanker

We're not participating a the civil war. There are two fights going on at the same time. The "Everyone vs the Invaders" fight, and the fighting between the various groups within Iraq. The two are separate and the second is quite capable of going on without the presence of the Coalition forces.

NTM

Many Sunnis in Baghdad don't see it that way, they believe the U.S. has taken sides with the Shiites, who are now hunting down and killing Sunnis identified by their required ID cards. They, the Sunnis, want the Americans gone.

I've been reading Riverbend's blog since the start of the Iraq War. She started off fearful, then turned hopeful all the way through the first round of elections. In the last year her posts have become a lot less frequent, partially due to only having 4-6 hours of electricity per day, and have become much darker and cynical. She's gone from having a favorable view of Americans in general to one more of hatred and fear. I could be wrong, but I firmly believe she represents the mainstream Sunni view.

[Godless Dave]

Originally Posted by California Tanker

We're not participating a the civil war. There are two fights going on at the same time. The "Everyone vs the Invaders" fight, and the fighting between the various groups within Iraq. The two are separate and the second is quite capable of going on without the presence of the Coalition forces.

We have sided with some of those groups.

[LionsDen]

Nothing is going to come of the current middle east conflict. Neither Israel nor her Arab neighbors want a war.



Perhaps Iran does. Perhaps Iran is willing to let other people die in Lebanon. But even Iran has to know that if it intervenes in Lebanon, then the world will boycott Iran trade and devastate Iran... which is what the USA wants. Iran would have to give up its nuclear weapons program or face starvation.



In Egypt and St Petersberg not one nation is calling for Israel to stop. Why? Perhaps the Arab nations know that Hezbollah could attack them too! And the western nations don't want to lose their oil.



Just now on the news Hezbollah has asked for a cease fire. I knew it! I told the wife this would happen.

[Sauron]

Originally Posted by LionsDen

Nothing is going to come of the current middle east conflict. Neither Israel nor her Arab neighbors want a war.



Perhaps Iran does. Perhaps Iran is willing to let other people die in Lebanon. But even Iran has to know that if it intervenes in Lebanon, then the world will boycott Iran trade and devastate Iran... which is what the USA wants. Iran would have to give up its nuclear weapons program or face starvation.

Ridiculous. In the first place, Iran's food imports have been stable since 1990 or so. Secondly, the countries around Iran will still trade with it. Thirdly, there is no international consensus against Iranian assistance in Lebanon. Fourth, given the recent world rise in oil prices - hovering near $80 a barrel - and the burgeoning Chinese and Indian economies, there is zero evidence that anyone would turn down buying Iranian oil.

Of course, if you think differently, feel free to provide figures showing Iran's vulnerability to a food boycott, as well as international attitudes that would support such a move. Use both sides of the paper if necessary.

In Egypt and St Petersberg not one nation is calling for Israel to stop.

That's a total of nine nations (G8 + 1); not the entire world. Did you think that number was somehow impressive or something?

You're wrong anyhow - as usual.

Why? Perhaps the Arab nations know that Hezbollah could attack them too!

*sigh* just wrong, on so many different levels.

And the western nations don't want to lose their oil.

Which doesn't come from Egypt, in any case.

Just now on the news Hezbollah has asked for a cease fire. I knew it! I told the wife this would happen.

Then she should slap you for being wrong. The Lebanese PM called for a cease-fire, not Hezbollah.

[Sauron]

In Egypt and St Petersberg not one nation is calling for Israel to stop.

What a difference 24 hours makes.

G-8 Leaders Call for End of Mideast Violence

By Peter Baker and Peter Finn
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, July 16, 2006; 4:24 PM

STRELNA, Russia, July 16 -- President Bush and seven other world leaders put aside differences and joined together Sunday to call for "an immediate end to the current violence" in the Middle East, demanding that Islamic radicals stop firing rockets at Jewish cities and release captured Israeli soldiers while insisting that Israel halt military operations and free arrested Palestinian officials.

[LionsDen]

Originally Posted by Sauron

What a difference 24 hours makes.

Yes! I was confident it would cool off. Thanks for the good news.

About what would happen if we withdrew:

Look at what happened in Afghanistan when the shias and sunnis were free to kill each other.

And look at who won.

An look at who supported Osama and predict the future...

That is why liberals and democrats are so bad for the USA! Vote for a strong national defense... vote Republican.

[LionsDen]

Originally Posted by Sauron

The Lebanese PM called for a cease-fire, not Hezbollah.

Just a minor detail... big deal. I was right about the Islamic side's begging for a cease fire. You must be desparate looking for something to complain about.



Then she should slap you for being wrong.

Speak for your own marriage. I can recommend counselling!

Enjoy the victory in Israel! I do.

[Sauron]

Originally Posted by LionsDen

Yes! I was confident it would cool off. Thanks for the good news.

It hasn't cooled off. And anyone who read the article certainly would not get that impression from reading it, either.

Are you sure that you're fully plugged into this conversation?

About what would happen if we withdrew:

Look at what happened in Afghanistan when the shias and sunnis were free to kill each other.

Nothing.

And look at who won.

Huh?
No one one. Nobody was fighting. What are you talking about?

An look at who supported Osama and predict the future...

The USA supported Osama. The Taliban wouldn't have existed, if the Reagan administration hadn't screwed up the job in Afghanistan, and then ignored the situation after the fall of the USSR.

That is why liberals and democrats are so bad for the USA!

1. Totally wrong.

2. A fitting way to end your nonsense ramble about Afghanistan, though - by topping it off with another error.

Vote for a strong national defense... vote Republican.

The Republicans are the ones who have gotten us into two wars in only 6 years. Give 'em a chance, they'll make it 3 for 3 before Dubya gets his ass booted from the White House.