Climategate 2.0

[But]

Originally Posted by thedoc

The 'butterfly effect' is popular nonsense, any small input can easily be drowned out by other larger inputs. Show me a million butterflies flapping their wings in unison in the same direction, and maybe you have something to consider.

Short reply No.1: Explain to me in detail what you think the "butterfly effect" is,

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

Indeed. Some proponents of the "Gaia Hypothesis" more or less seriously claim that global warming is the planet's way of getting rid of us -- or more precisely, the industrial technology that is contributing to destabilization of the Earth's ecosystems.

Personally, I think that the Gaia Hypothesis is pretty-much nonsense on stilts, but I must admit that there's a certain poetic justice to the notion of us being done in by our own arrogant refusal to accept that our actions have consequences.

and short reply No.2: Please tell me what your interpretation of the Gaia Hypothesis is. I might add that in my worldview at the moment, there are large oscillating masses at the center of the planet that bend the world lines of particles. Have you ever noticed that when you pass a certain point at, say, 10 AM and 10 PM on the same day (2 Pi phase shift), you can pick up energy at one point and leave it at the other?

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by But

Have you ever noticed that when you pass a certain point at, say, 10 AM and 10 PM on the same day (2 Pi phase shift), you can pick up energy at one point and leave it at the other?

Do you mount crystals on the end of a pole to pick up energy? I worked with a guy who did that, and would stand out side in a thunder storm, and then tell us how he could feel the energy flowing through the pole.

[thedoc]

But, have you ever flown over the north pole to check out the hole there where UFO' fly in and out from their base in the center of the Earth?

[fragment]

Originally Posted by fragment

Readings are provisional

Yup. Revised down to 399.89 already. IIRC it takes a year or so before they've done all the QC.

[Dragar]

Originally Posted by thedoc

The 'butterfly effect' is popular nonsense, any small input can easily be drowned out by other larger inputs. Show me a million butterflies flapping their wings in unison in the same direction, and maybe you have something to consider.

Er....what?

The 'butterfly effect' is nothing close to nonsense. Tiny inputs can have pronounced effects on the future evolution of a system. Even something as grandiose as the solar system- often cited as the archetypical predictable, deterministic, clockwork system - becomes (on a large enough timescale) completely unpredictable. The errors in or measurements; the missing effects of extra planetary bodies; the subtle behaviour of asteroid belts: any of these small inputs vastly change the future evolution of the solar system. They are not just drowned out.

The while point of non-linear systems is that you can't assume small effects are 'drowned out', because over time those non-linear effects propagate through the mathematics, often driven by the linear terms, to become comparable to anything you are using to 'drown them' out.

Chaos - even in the solar system - was such a big discovery it so the physics community of its day to the core.

[But]

Originally Posted by Dragar

The 'butterfly effect' is nothing close to nonsense. Tiny inputs can have pronounced effects on the future evolution of a system. Even something as grandiose as the solar system- often cited as the archetypical predictable, deterministic, clockwork system - becomes (on a large enough timescale) completely unpredictable.

True. But there is no single time scale. Large and small are words.

The errors in or measurements; the missing effects of extra planetary bodies; the subtle behaviour of asteroid belts: any of these small inputs vastly change the future evolution of the solar system. They are not just drowned out.

They even come back again and again. The points where they do that are called nodes or addresses.

The while point of non-linear systems is that you can't assume small effects are 'drowned out', because over time those non-linear effects propagate through the mathematics, often driven by the linear terms, to become comparable to anything you are using to 'drown them' out.

Through the mathematics? What an imprecise term.

Chaos - even in the solar system - was such a big discovery it so the physics community of its day to the core.

The core?

[But]

Originally Posted by thedoc

Do you mount crystals on the end of a pole to pick up energy? I worked with a guy who did that, and would stand out side in a thunder storm, and then tell us how he could feel the energy flowing through the pole.

Do you think the guy was lying?

[Dragar]

Originally Posted by But

Through the mathematics? What an imprecise term.

I'm writing for non-mathematicians.

The core?

Its. Typo. Silly idea to post from a phone.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by But

Short reply No.1: Explain to me in detail what you think the "butterfly effect" is,

short answer No. 1 in detail that you can understand, - "Popular Nonsense", but in light of events in Oklahoma we should exterminate all Butterflies, just in case.

[But]

Originally Posted by Dragar

I'm writing for non-mathematicians.

Its. Typo. Silly idea to post from a phone.

If you have too much time on your hands, take a look at Chua's attractor. Easy to implement, and it has all 4 coordinates of space-time (time and three others).

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by But

Do you think the guy was lying?

No, If you wave a wet stick in the air during a thunder storm you are going to feel the energy from static electricity, and not the kind of "Crystal Power" this guy thought he was getting.

[thedoc]

You can get a similar effect by standing under high tension power lines and hold a fluorescent tube in the air, the bulb will light up.

[But]

Originally Posted by thedoc

You can get a similar effect by standing under high tension power lines and hold a fluorescent tube in the air, the bulb will light up.

No shit.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by But

No shit?

No, Just light.

[But]

Originally Posted by thedoc

No, If you wave a wet stick in the air during a thunder storm you are going to feel the energy from static electricity, and not the kind of "Crystal Power" this guy thought he was getting.

If you wave a wet stick in the air during a thunderstorm, you are going to feel a potential difference. No "static electricity". On the contrary. If you want to experiment with "crystal power", try a simple short wave radio oscillator circuit. With a "crystal power" diode inside. You will notice that it has the power to conduct electronic current in one direction better than in the other direction. If you put that piece of crystal or maybe even germanium shit on your wet salty wooden shit stick, lightning may strike you. No offen[c]se. You will feel the crystal power as you stop breathing forever.

LOL.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by But

If you wave a wet stick in the air during a thunderstorm, you are going to feel a potential difference. No "static electricity". On the contrary. If you want to experiment with "crystal power", try a simple short wave radio oscillator circuit. With a "crystal power" diode inside. You will notice that it has the power to conduct electronic current in one direction better than in the other direction. If you put that piece of crystal or maybe even germanium shit on your wet salty wooden shit stick, lightning may strike you. No offen[c]se. You will feel the crystal power as you stop breathing forever.

LOL.

You are either really confused, or just looking for a fight. Either way, you're on your own.

[But]

No, no, no. You are just too scared to put a germanium diode like 1N60 on a wooden salty wet stick and walk into the next thunderstorm. You can show your Lichtenberg tattoo to the girls in your metal shop class.

[The Man]

Advanced Alien Civilization Discovers Uninhabitable Planet | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

[SR71]

Funny cartoon

[SR71]

China's NAS took the trouble to translate, just translate, a Heartland document, and then Heartland was all, Yeah SEE! The Chinese agree with us! And then China went, nih nin nih nih NO! It's all hyperlinked.

Chinese science academy slaps down climate-denying Heartland Institute | Grist

Since there is absolutely no ground for the so called CAS endorsement of the report, and the actions by the Heartland Institute went way beyond acceptable academic integrity, we have requested by email to the president of the Heartland Institute that the false news on its website to be removed. We also requested that the Institute issue a public apology to CAS for the misleading statement on the CAS endorsement.

[SR71]

Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog : Extreme Jet Stream Pattern Triggers Historic European Floods | Weather Underground

The Mississippi flooded earlier this month, turning on a dime from drought to flood.

Is climate change making severe suck weather more common? I wouldn't be surprised. There is some theory that persistent high pressure blocks result from the increased height of the weathery parts of the atmosphere and slowing or movement of the jet stream. These blocks stall the passage of new fronts, so it stays dryer or wetter in one place for longer.

Floods caused by a blocking high pressure system
The primary cause of the torrential rains over Central Europe during late May and early June was large loop in the jet stream that developed over Europe and got stuck in place. A "blocking high" set up over Northern Europe, forcing two low pressure systems, "Frederik" and "Günther", to avoid Northern Europe and instead track over Central Europe. The extreme kink in the jet stream ushered in a strong southerly flow of moisture-laden air from the Mediterranean Sea over Central Europe, which met up with colder air flowing from the north due to the stuck jet stream pattern, allowing "Frederik" and "Günther" to dump 1-in-100 year rains. The stuck jet stream pattern also caused record May heat in northern Finland and surrounding regions of Russia and Sweden, where temperatures averaged an astonishing 12°C (21°F) above average for a week at the end of May. All-time May heat records--as high as 87°F--were set at stations north of the Arctic Circle in Finland.

[SR71]

Obama Campaign Aides to Obama: Reject Keystone XL Pipeline - NationalJournal.com

“Climate change is a top issue for the youth voters that worked day-in and day-out to elect President Obama,” said Andrew Nazdin, who worked as a deputy training director for Obama’s reelection campaign, Organizing for America, in Virginia in 2012. “The president promised action and we are going to hold him to his word, lead on climate, and reject Keystone XL.” Nazdin, who now is the field director for Energy Action Coalition that organized the letter, was among those arrested recently in Chicago while protesting the project.

If Obama doesn't fight the pipeline I will be really disappointed. He seemed pretty clear on his position before his reelection.

[SR71]

This is cool. I hope it's sincere and not just for the PR. It sounds sincere.

U.S. Business Leaders Urge Strong Policy Action on Climate Change — Ceres

“The signers of the Climate Declaration have a clear message for Washington: Act on climate change. We are, and it’s good for our businesses,” said Anne Kelly, Director of BICEP. “The cost of inaction is too high. Policymakers should see climate change policy for what it is: an economic opportunity.”

Together, the Declaration signatories provide approximately 475,000 U.S. jobs and generate a combined annual revenue of approximately $450 billion. Extreme weather events like Hurricane Sandy have affected several Climate Declaration signatories and exposed the United States’ economic vulnerability to climate change.

“From droughts that affect cotton crops to Hurricane Sandy, which caused extensive damage to our operations, climate affects all aspects of our business,” said Eileen Fisher, CEO of New York-based apparel firm Eileen Fisher, which suffered severe damage and business interruption during the 2012 storm. “As a socially and environmentally responsible company, we are trying to affect positive change, but business can't do it alone. We need the support of strong climate legislation.”

The signatories of the Climate Declaration are calling for Congress to address climate change by promoting clean energy, boosting efficiency and limiting carbon emissions – strategies that these businesses already employ within their own operations.

“Businesses understand that planning for a successful future takes investment today. One of the most important things Congress can do to grow our economy and protect our planet is to pass smart climate change legislation this year. Our workforce, supply chain and consumers are counting on us to lead the way,” said Anna Walker, Director, Government Affairs and Public Policy at Levi Strauss & Co.

BICEP members have supported several climate-driven policies, including historic automotive fuel economy standards signed into law in 2012 and the extension of the Production Tax Credit for wind power. Innovation within the transportation, electric power sectors and IT sectors, among others, will be essential to meeting the climate challenge.

The list of companies.

[Angakuk]

BICEP - "We are flexing our economic muscles and we mean business."

[ceptimus]

It's a good start.

But I bet IKEA and similar are only planning to generate the energy they use locally in their shops and offices - not enough to cover all the energy used in creating the materials that go into their products.

I saw on the TV the other day, that heavy industries - the kinds that use LOTS of power, are moving back into places like Pennsylvania, as the cheap energy available from gas released by fracking is offsetting the higher labor costs of hiring USA workers.

This rush to use the 'new' resource of shale gas is a bit worrying. It seems like most are as energy-hungry as ever and only really interested in using whatever form of energy is (in the short term) cheapest - never mind any possible environmental results if they're more than a few months distant.