Snipers in Iraq

[TomJoe]

Has anyone seen the CNN video (it can also be found at YouTube) made by the Islamic Army of Iraq showing their snipers taking down American troops?

[California Tanker]

You got a link to the youtube video? The CNN one keeps blanking out when the shots are fired, making BDA to be totally impossible.

You will note that the vast majority of those insurgent videos never last long enough to show what happens afterwards. For example, watch this video:
http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2675852

Ordinarily, when the videos are released for the propoganda (With that ubiquitous singing) the clip stops at a certain point (in this case the 18-second mark), when the soldier has been shot and drops. It obviously does no propoganda benefit to show the rest of the video.

This is particularly so for the roadside bombings. More often than not, you see a tank drive by, cue big explosion, lots of dirt, dust, etc, and the tank is lost from view, the clip stops. As there have only been two incidents of tanks being destroyed by bombs, and a lot more than two videos of tanks being attacked, I've drawn my own conclusions as to the 'true/false' ratio of the videos.

Whilst of course this does not affect the fact that the insurgents are killing troops, just bear in mind that not all videos are what they appear to be.

NTM

[TomJoe]

YouTube Video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=N1oBQdnnzss

I couldn't watch it all.

They're not all kills, some are woundings, but they do show the soldiers scrambling around afterwards. I assume to demonstrate that they can disrupt American soldier activities and strike fear into them. According to CNN, it shows ten hits in all.

[Ari]

I haven't seen the video, and obviously US troops are being killed, but I agree with CT that they seem to be good at video editing and showing only what might seem to be shocking and good propaganda and not the full story.

[TomJoe]

Originally Posted by Ari

I haven't seen the video, and obviously US troops are being killed, but I agree with CT that they seem to be good at video editing and showing only what might seem to be shocking and good propaganda and not the full story.

Bold emphasis mine. They've admitted as much. They hope this video sways public opinion and forces the US to meet them in negotiations.

[California Tanker]

Good Lord, CNN are way behind the curve. That video came out in November of last year. It is theorised that the 'Juba' chap (If he ever existed as a single person) was captured by Tschiderer and his buddies (From the clip I linked to above). I had watched the entire video before, and the majority of the shootings do indeed end before you can determine what the effects were.

Being an insurgent sniper in Iraq is not a recipe for long-term survival. A number of them have been counter-sniped after a while. For example, you have the Tschiderer case above, there was a famous one in Fallujah (well, famous in the Army anyway), and one Marine unit has now put on display the American rifle used by an insurgent sniper after he took it from a dead Marine, which the Marines got back by killing said sniper on their subsequent rotation several months later.

NTM

[yguy]

Originally Posted by TomJoe

YouTube Video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=N1oBQdnnzss

I couldn't watch it all.

They're not all kills, some are woundings, but they do show the soldiers scrambling around afterwards. I assume to demonstrate that they can disrupt American soldier activities and strike fear into them.

So do you believe it?

[California Tanker]

I don't know about 'striking fear'. There are places where you keep your head down and honour the increased threat, but I don't know if I ever felt any increased fear just because I was in an area known for sniper activity. I had a round miss me by under six inches. The other time we were sniped (That we know about), we were frustrated that we couldn't find him, but the armour-piercing core was recovered and kept by the tank commander who was the target as a momento of the occasion.

NTM

[yguy]

Originally Posted by California Tanker

I don't know about 'striking fear'. There are places where you keep your head down and honour the increased threat, but I don't know if I ever felt any increased fear just because I was in an area known for sniper activity.

I wouldn't think so. Fear causes either paralysis or panic, and I see no evidence of that either in this particular video or anywhere else...but it's a good bet that many who watch that video feel fear, and project their fear onto the soldiers as a way of denying their own cowardice.

[viscousmemories]

I doubt there's a sane soldier who doesn't experience fear in combat.

[California Tanker]

Agreed. There's a difference between the general fear level, and an increased fear level from a particular cause. I had plenty enough to cause me concern, sniper attacks were not sufficiently distinct to cause a particularly increased level above what I already had.

NTM

[TomJoe]

Originally Posted by yguy

So do you believe it?

I think our soldiers know what they're getting into when they go over there, and they have been trained to act appropriately. In other words, whether you wish to suggest I'm projecting my own cowardice onto them vicariously or not, I don't think they're paralyzed with fear by being over in Iraq.

To be honest, if someone shot at me, I'd probably shit my pants (paintball doesn't count, as I'm just fine getting on when I know I run almost no risk of being killed). That's also probably the reason I've never joined the military in any capacity.

[TomJoe]

PS: It's possible the YouTube video isn't the latest video CNN aired.

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/anderson.cooper.360/blog/

The second tape surprised us even more. It documented 10 incidents of insurgent snipers attacking U.S. military personnel. To be clear, insurgents shot the tape themselves. This group has released similar tapes in the past. Indeed, you can find them on the Internet. But this tape uniquely included audio from the sniper team as they selected targets, waited for their opportunities and then praised Allah as they made their escapes.

Also CT, they address one of your concerns about the video:

You should know we dipped to black at the moment of actual impact of the rounds. A number of us felt airing that precise moment was simply too horrific.

[Dingfod]

The snipers have caused the U.S. troops to armor up and/or keep their heads down, both of which slow down or interfere with their effectiveness in their daily patrol duties. Whether taking precautions and reducing effectiveness is from fear, as in being afraid, I very much doubt it, but the fear of injury or death is very real.

As for the infamous Juba, if he was more than one sniper, they all had the same training: shoot once, with accuracy, then disappear. Repeated sniper shots almost surely will draw return fire, with larger and more powerful weaponry than a sniper rifle.

[JackDog]

That's pretty damn ballsy to shoot video of a sniper attack.

[yguy]

Originally Posted by TomJoe

Also CT, they address one of your concerns about the video:

You should know we dipped to black at the moment of actual impact of the rounds. A number of us felt airing that precise moment was simply too horrific.

What was the point of CNN disseminating this propaganda at all?

As if I didn't know.

[California Tanker]

Originally Posted by TomJoe

PS: It's possible the YouTube video isn't the latest video CNN aired.

[url]But this tape uniquely included audio from the sniper team as they selected targets, waited for their opportunities and then praised Allah as they made their escapes.

That's just an issue of post-production. They always talk between themeselves, it's just an issue of if we hear it.

Tschiderer tape: (Translation from militaryphotos.net)
First he says: let him walk more into the front so when you shoot him it will be a good shot ( like in a good angle for the vid). Then after the shot he says: shall I put the stuff away? The other guy says no. Then the first guy asks: did he fall? Yes, yes he fell ...

Also CT, they address one of your concerns about the video:

I know why they did it, it just makes any form of analysis rather difficult.

NTM

[Watser?]

Originally Posted by yguy

What was the point of CNN disseminating this propaganda at all?

As if I didn't know.

They are obviously working for the terrorists

Well, part-time that is. Most of the time they are disseminating the Republican propaganda about Iraq.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by yguy

What was the point of CNN disseminating this propaganda at all?

As if I didn't know.

If I had to guess, they thought people would want to watch it and, by extension, any adverts shown adjacent to it, thus making money for their shareholders.

[Freddy]

As I read the local rag today a story about a soldier who was killed in Iraq this week by a sniper. He was a 23 year old Marine Lieutenant from Sturbridge, MA. He was leading his platoon while on patrol when he was killed. Are the insurgents targeting officers as the Americans did when they fought the British for their independence?

[yguy]

Originally Posted by Adam

If I had to guess, they thought people would want to watch it and, by extension, any adverts shown adjacent to it, thus making money for their shareholders.

So do you also figure they covered up the torture that was going on under Saddam for ten years so as to retain their advertisers?

[Sauron]

Originally Posted by yguy

So do you also figure they covered up the torture that was going on under Saddam for ten years so as to retain their advertisers?

Do you have any evidence whatsoever that CNN covered up any such thing?

No. Of course you don't; silly of me to ask.

[D. Scarlatti]

Actually CNN did admit to not reporting numerous instances of brutality under Saddam's regime, but I don't think it was to appease its advertisers. I believe it was to protect the lives of its staffers and their families.

The News We Kept to Ourselves

[Sauron]

Originally Posted by D. Scarlatti

Actually CNN did admit to not reporting numerous instances of brutality under Saddam's regime, but I don't think it was to appease its advertisers. I believe it was to protect the lives of its staffers and their families.

The News We Kept to Ourselves

Point well taken. I remembered the CNN admission, but it's nice to have a link to it.

My objection however, was to yguy's accusation of "covered up". That's slightly different from "chose not to report." A cover-up is an active process; you have to go out of your way to perpetrate a cover-up.

[California Tanker]

You guys are more patient than I.

NTM