Passive aggression

[Doctor X]

Originally Posted by ShottleBop

Yeah, but are you sure you want it?

Can I "put it down?"

--J.D.

[mickthinks]

I'm bumping this because I believe it calls for a better response than it has had so far. In particular, the last point ask viscousmemories to back his "no reasonable person would believe that you are thankful" claim with a proper argument, or if he cannot, to withdraw it.

Originally Posted by mickthinks

Hello again, viscousmemories

Now if my sarcastic comment about your stupid greetings was my irrational, knee-jerk easy way out, how do you explain the fact that I gave a very specific example of the behavior that I thought was passive aggressive (ie. saying "Thanks!" when no reasonable person would believe that you are thankful)
A specific example, or just a specific pretext for a complaint with no real substance? I think it was the latter. No other explanation is needed.

...then went on to mention other things that bothered me about your posts?
I didn't mean to imply that 'passive aggressive' was the only rock you threw at me, merely that it was an easy rock to throw (but a very tricky one to deflect).

But as anyone can plainly see, your repeated claim that I pulled "passive aggressive" out of thin air simply because I'm too lazy, thoughtless or timid to tell you what I really think obviously holds no water.
I don't think I said or implied anything about you being too lazy, thoughtless or timid. What I am saying is:

• I think most allegations of passive aggression at are attempts by one party to blame their own hostility on the other person and win sympathy for what might otherwise be inexcusable behaviour.
• Pillorying someone for their politeness is a classic example of a diversionary ad hominem.
• There's a danger that, in the absense of a concensus on what 'passive aggression' should mean, the phrase becomes code for "it's your fault we can't contain our anger".

...it's even more clear that the general rule about me (and others here) that you have extrapolated from this gross misunderstanding of my comments is wrong too.
I don't believe I have grossly misunderstood your "passive aggressive" comments.

…when no reasonable person would believe that you are thankful…
Why shouldn't people believe I am thankful to be engaged in a dialogue? I think this is an unreasonable conjecture off which hangs a lot of unjustified hostility, for which I am unjustly being blamed. Unless you can support it with some firm evidence, may I ask you to withdraw it?

Mick

[Ex-zombie]

At first it was amusing to watch you trying to aggravate vm.

Then it became annoying since all you do is say the same things over and over again.

You bump old threads.

You are unaccountably obsessed with vm.

You are a creepy stalker.

Get some psychiatric help.

[Crumb]

Or just get a new hobby.

[Brimshack]

(Phone rings)

Hello

Hi, this is Mick

Yeah, hi Mick, what's up?

Well, hey I was just thinking about our D&D campaign.

Yeah Mick, uh, not much is going on right now, you know.

Yeah, well I know, it's just that I was thinking about that one ruling.

You mean the one from our second game?

Yeah, exactly, you know where you gave me a DC of 15 on a skill check. I really think it should have been a 12. 15 was too high.

Mick, you totalled to a 9.

Well sure, but a bad ruling doesn't become a better ruling just beause the outcome would have been the same.

Yeah, you've mentioned that one.

So, anyway, I'd like you to go over it again. You really never justified the high DC.

Mick, that was about a dozen games back and you're not part of the gr..., the campaign is over now, I mean. It just doesn't matter at this point.

Well I think it does matter, and I think it's really pretty disheartening that you and the others don't want to discuss it. It's almost like you don't have a defence for that bogus ruling.

Mick, I don't even remember...

No problem, let me remind you. It went like...

Mick, you're not listening.

No, you're the one who'se not listening. It was when...

(Click)



...



(Ring)

Hold on guys, let me get my cell. ...Yeah, I go on hold, okay? ...Hello?

Hello

Mick?

Hi John

Mick, didn't you just...

I've been thinking about that old ruling...

(click)

[mickthinks]

[A knock at the door. Brimshack's flatmate Jimshack enters]

You coming down the gym, Brim?
Nah, tied up here on the intertubes, Jim. Fitness is for fuckwits, anyway
Hey, no way man! You wanna watch it, you could lose maybe 2.5 inches off your biceps before you know. Whatcha doin' that's so important you'd let your belly go hang?
Ah. see here. I'm humilating this dude Mick on the FF by inventing an imaginary conversation in which I make him look like an asshat.
By putting your words into his mouth? Doesn't that make you the asshat he seems?
No, dumbass, because everyone likes me and thinks I'm cool. See how I make fun of his D&D hobby?
He plays D&D? That's soooo lame!
Well, no, he doesn't, actually ... But pretending he does is funneh.
Er, yeah, I guess so. Let me see - "DC of 15", "Skillcheck" - that's authentic D&D stuff yeah?
Sure, it's my attention to details like that that makes me so funneh. Ha ha ha ha!
So you've played a bit of D&D yourself, Brim?
Er ... Yeah, sure! I'm not shagging hot chicks all the time, you douchebag! Duh!
Mmmokay .... You've got this Mick making a 'phone call, whereas he actually posts to a message board. No unwelcome interruptions then, and no one is actually inconvenienced by his messages in the way you're imaginary dialog implies. That seems a bit - I dunno - a bit sly?
Yeah, you have take a few liberties with the truth, Jim, if you want to be really funneh.
I suppose so, and truly evil bastards don't deserve a fair hearing. This Mick guy's a truly evil bastard, I guess?
I guess.

[pause]

You mean you don't know?
Look man, I'm not going to plough through all that back thread shit just to check my humor is not misplaced. Who in hell cares as long as I'm being funneh!
Aren't you afraid that by trying to humiliate people with humor without caring about the issues you are mocking, you'll end up looking like a vacuous and vindictive asshole?
. . . Dude, you don't get humor, do you? People will always love me - I'm so funneh!

[S.Vashti]

Originally Posted by mickthinks

(snip)
Aren't you afraid that by trying to humiliate people with humor without caring about the issues you are mocking, you'll end up looking like a vacuous and vindictive asshole?
(snip)

* Irony rolls a crit against mickthinks

Saving throws are futile, but go ahead.

[viscousmemories]

I'm not reading your posts, mick, so on the off chance that you're writing them for me you're wasting your time.

[Brimshack]

Originally Posted by mickthinks

(snip)
Aren't you afraid that by trying to humiliate people with humor without caring about the issues you are mocking, you'll end up looking like a vacuous and vindictive asshole?
(snip)

no

[mickthinks]

You're not afraid of looking like a vacuous and vindictive asshole, Brim? Somehow, I guessed that!

[Shelli]

The thread that just. wouldn't. die.

[Brimshack]

Originally Posted by mickthinks

You're not afraid of looking like a vacuous and vindictive asshole, Brim? Somehow, I guessed that!

Awe sweetie! You care, you really care!

I am so flattered.

[mickthinks]

Hello Crumb

Or just get a new hobby. I think the way viscousmemories has tried to argue was a misuse of power. I don't think of challenging those who misuse power as a 'hobby' exactly.

Mick

[mickthinks]

[Brimshack]

Originally Posted by mickthinks

Hello Crumb

Or just get a new hobby. I think the way viscousmemories has tried to argue was a misuse of power. I don't think of challenging those who misuse power as a 'hobby' exactly.

Mick

Quite the exagerrated description of what you are doing here Mick. VM doesn't have a whole hell of a lot of power. He's just a guy kind enough to let you post on his website. Building him up to some sort of institutional despot may enable you to flatter your own crusader pretentions, but it's just pathetic. Rude and pathetic.

There is a lot of misuse of power out there Mick. You aren't doing anything noble here. Go fuck with city hall why don't you. But first, you ought to learn how to read, and maybe take an elementary logic class or two. Then maybe you'll be ready for a real crusade. In the meantime, make no mistake about it. You are not opposing any misuse of power. You're just harassing a guy whose shown you a hell of a lot more patience than you deserve.

[mickthinks]

Brimshack,

But first, you ought to learn how to read, and maybe take an elementary logic class or two.
This is just arrogant toss-pottery. I prefer you when you are trying to be funny.

You're just harassing a guy whose shown you a hell of a lot more patience than you deserve.
No he hasn't. He's argued badly and hasn't banned me for saying so. That's just according me my rights as an er, you pompous twat

Mick

[Brimshack]

Hehe!

Mick, you think you have a right as an FFer? You think any of us have rights as FFers? No Mick, it's a prevelage, no more no less.

And what if VM has argued badly? So, freaking what? That'd make him like just about every other guy on the planet. It's only important in the heroic tale you've fashioned for yourself, because you exagerrate VM's authority in order to flatter yourself. That's your excuse for making an extended ad hominem against your gracious host all this time. You tell yourself a pretty story about standing up to abuse of authority, but you're not. You're just an asshole with an obsession (alternatively, a child playing at rebellion against your own personal fantasy dictator), no more and no less.

BTW: Mickthinks, you're claims about who does and who does not argue well hold about as much water as a cheese grater.

[Crumb]

Originally Posted by mickthinks

That's just according me my rights as an er...

You post at the pleasure of vm and liv who are nice enough to run the best forum on the 'nets. You have no right to post here.

[Brimshack]

This is good though. We're finally getting somewhere. See, in the fantasy that Mickthinks is creating on this message board he is a citizen, endowed with specific rights that have been violated. His opponent is not merely some guy who had the audacity to disagree with him and (according to Mick) ...wait for it! "...argue badly" (thunderclap), no VM is someone who is abusing his authority. It's an interesting phenomenon really, building up an opponent so as to grant oneself extra liberty when dealing with him. If VM is just a guy, then common decency would say that Mick should have left it alone a long time ago. But if VM is a tyrrant abusing the rights of FF citizens, well them what the heck?

It reminds me a little bit of long hair. Used to be you could get your repression fix as a teenager by just growng you hair long and seeing who would be mean to you about it. So, you could be discriminated against by the teacher, by your dad, maybe even get turned down for a few jobs. Then heck, you have something in common with all the minorities and women of the world. You too have been oppressed. You too have felt the jack boots of a shameless oppressor. And you too labor under the shadow of injustice and tyranny. ...until you get it cut.

..Or in this case, simply decide to let it go.

[mickthinks]

you think you have a right as an FFer?
Yes, to think what I like and to say what I think. That is the right we are all granted by livius and vm. If you are saying I should be grateful to have that right, rest assured that I am. If on the other hand you are saying I enjoy a privilege that vm could take away at any time, then it is you who is overestimating the power that he allows himself to wield.

And what if VM has argued badly? Then he should be told, because apparently he doesn't know;

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

Never mind that you've failed to show that I've argued badly in any case ...

That's your excuse for making an extended ad hominem against your gracious host all this time.
I've asked vm to justify one of his worst ad hominems (" no reasonable person would believe that you are thankful…") or to withdraw it. I think that's a reasonable request and it is legitimate for me to highlight his failure to respond to it. Naturally, I'll stop if and when he responds. You seem to be arguing that because he is a gracious host, his ad hominems have to be swallowed.

Mickthinks, you're claims about who does and who does not argue well hold about as much water as a cheese grater.
What grounds do you have for that ad hominem, Brim?

I didn't mention authority, you did. vm rarely exercises any authority here, but he does abuse his power, I think.

[Brimshack]

You did say VM was abusing his "power." If authority isn't an adequate paraphrase, feel free to show me that there is a significant difference in this context.

It'll go right up there with your lovely little but of equivocation about having rights granted to you (nice dodgy way to ignore the point about posting here being a privelage). And whether or not VM allows himself to wield power is hardly the point, except to those who enjoy semantic shell games.

As to my grounds for the ad hominem comment (note:not a fallacy btw, just a frank dismissal of your own conclusionary statements), or your false claims that VM was engaging in an ad hominem against you, I'm not interested in explaining either of these. I am satisfied that I am right and you are wrong, and that there is absolutely no point in trying to show you that is the case. You may dismiss my position as you like, just as I will yours. The difference is that I won't be resurrecting this thread for the next few months just to revisit the matter.

...and with that, I am done with you for the day. There isn't a hope in hell that you will see reason on this issue, nor that you will even begin to exercise good judgement in any way whatsoever. You are free to act as flaking bits of smegma all you like. Goodnight Mick. Enjoy yourself.

[mickthinks]

As to my grounds for the ad hominem, I'm not interested in explaining them. Then I'd say you are arguing as badly as viscousmemories and that's no way to defend him.

ETA: You are arguing that since vm is a gracious host, we must swallow his ad hominems, aren't you?

G'night Jimbob

[ShottleBop]

Originally Posted by mickthinks

Hello Crumb

Or just get a new hobby. I think the way viscousmemories has tried to argue was a misuse of power. I don't think of challenging those who misuse power as a 'hobby' exactly.

Mick

What power, exactly, do you accuse viscousmemories of misusing? The power to connect to the Internet? The power to type? As far as I can see, the statement of which you complain involved no exercise of any special power he might have in his capacity as a moderator of this site.

[Brimshack]

Originally Posted by mickthinks

As to my grounds for the ad hominem, I'm not interested in explaining them. Then I'd say you are arguing as badly as viscousmemories and that's no way to defend him.

ETA: You are arguing that since vm is a gracious host, we must swallow his ad hominems, aren't you?

G'night Jimbob

No actually, it's not. That's called lying Mick. You're lying.

Take care, Snookie.