a billion

[D. Scarlatti]

Use the binary gigaseconds, you're younger.

[Ensign Steve]

But then I'll have to wait longer to have my party.

DH's is next month!

[D. Scarlatti]

No, the DH's was December 13, 2004. Steeerike!

[Petra]

I dunno, when I was a kid a billion was a million million. When did a billion become a thousand million, and why?

[Watser?]

It still is a million million here.

[lisarea]

Originally Posted by Petra

I dunno, when I was a kid a billion was a million million. When did a billion become a thousand million, and why?

That is a British billion. American billions have always been a thousand million.

[D. Scarlatti]

[Petra]

Well, when I become a billionaire, I know I will totally be a British one 'cos American ones are paupers by comparison.

[lisarea]

Originally Posted by Petra

Well, when I become a billionaire, I know I will totally be a British one 'cos American ones are paupers by comparison.

The billions conversion rate is designed to reflect how much better American burritos are than British ones, and how much more money you have to have to make up for that.

[Petra]

Good point. British burritos are pretty darned awful.

[ZEZOZE]

Originally Posted by Petra

British burritos

that's a good band name.

[California Tanker]

Originally Posted by Leesifer

Damned if I know why you did that, the figures clearly show the US stomping ahead over time.

I think the US's international weight was less than this would imply, however, as it would have taken up a stupid amount of manufacturing ability just to keep the country running: Look at how many miles of railroad needed to be built and run in 1913 vs in the UK, for example. The Global Economy of today wasn't there, all that produce has to get across the water somehow, whilst the UK's exports just needed to get across the Channel. Militarily also, the US was insignificant until mid WWII, barring the Navy.

NTM

[Brimshack]

I think an argument challenging the wisdom of the relief package ought to look at acxtual spending plans, costs versus benefits, etc. This little bit of smoke and mirrors (not to mention xenophobia with just a hint of possible sexism) is more than a little assinine.

[wildernesse]

I've seen this message in the OP in email before and it always makes me extremely annoyed. Maybe its the part about Mom staying home with the kids, which was not really ever the case in my family. Why? Because, like most Americans, my family was poor. You can find them working in the cotton mills--mama, daddy, and all their children over age six--from the time cotton mills sprang up near them, which in their case was 1848. My mother is the first generation in her family who never worked in the mill.

Those who weren't lintheads lived on the farm and everyone stayed at home with the kids. There wasn't any place to go--except for school and church.

I love mythical America of times past. Back when everyone spoke English. Unless you were in a large city. Or in California. Or Texas. Etc.

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by Naruto

Is this true? I was under the impression that the US wasn't really all that influential until WWI or so. Any history people want to chime in?

Others have taken this and run with it.

I want to back up and ask, does "prosperous" necessarily equate to "influential"?

I'd like to know what was meant by "prosperous". In 1908, there weren't that many "prosperous" nations in the world at all, using industrialized western measures. Compared to some other parts of the world, the US was quite "prosperous"...but, I'm not sure that the claim can be made that it was "the most prosperous", but "one of the most prosperous" isn't that big of a claim.

The use of the term "influential" seems to me to vary with the user, as well. Able to kick the shit out of any other nation which gets in it's way....No. Able to tool up to produce massive amounts of industrial products and the organization to move it where it was needed, as the underpinning for a protracted conflict, there was none better (at the time). I'd say that the US international political influence began when the bully imperialist US kicked the crap out of tired, old Spain and took away most of it's colonies. Economic influence probably came before that...during the building of the trans-continental railroads, when European interests invested heavily in the growing US industrial infrastructure, and the primary industrial fuel shifted from coal to petroleum.

[ChuckF]

In addition to the awful math that TLR has pointed out, I find this part particularly annoying:

While this thought is still fresh in our brain, let's
take a look at New Orleans. It's amazing what
you can learn with some simple division. Louisiana
Senator, Mary Landrieu (D), is presently asking the
Congress for $250 BILLION to rebuild New Orleans.
Interesting number, what does it mean?

A. Well, if you are one of 484,674 residents of New
Orleans (every man, woman, child), you each get $516,528.

B. Or, if you have one of the 188,251 homes in New
Orleans , your home gets $1,329,787.

C. Or, if you are a family of four, your family gets
$2,066,012.

Washington, D.C .. HELLO!!! ... Are all your
calculators broken??

First of all, it's wrong. First, Landrieu and Vitter (R - Adulter) requested $250 billion for the entire state of Louisiana, not just New Orleans as this screed implies, of which $180 billion was to be in direct federal spending. Of course, they didn't get that, nor did they expect to. The administration tells us that as of August 2007, $114 billion in "resources" has been allocated to the entire gulf region, of which $24 billion in federal funds has been spent on rebuilding and victim assistance. So the $250 billion number is misleading.

On the other hand, this all makes fantastic sense if you're completely retarded. Because then you might actually believe that 100% reconstruction funds are disbursed directly to individuals and families, or that the inhabitants of New Orleans are the only people who benefit from reconstruction. In addition to stimulating home reconstruction and rebuilding local business, that money will go towards restoring infrastructure - including some levees and wetlands that probably could have been managed better to begin with. The entire country benefits from having a restored New Orleans, since the port of New Orleans is a major economic asset.

Now, it's fine to object to this line of thought if you're retarded. It's fine, because when a natural disaster hits your area and your home is destroyed, the first thing you'll do is run around your ruined neighborhood shouting "KA-CHING!" Because you're retarded and don't know any better.

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by wildernesse

I've seen this message in the OP in email before and it always makes me extremely annoyed. Maybe its the part about Mom staying home with the kids, which was not really ever the case in my family. Why? Because, like most Americans, my family was poor. You can find them working in the cotton mills--mama, daddy, and all their children over age six--from the time cotton mills sprang up near them, which in their case was 1848. My mother is the first generation in her family who never worked in the mill.

Those who weren't lintheads lived on the farm and everyone stayed at home with the kids. There wasn't any place to go--except for school and church.

I love mythical America of times past. Back when everyone spoke English. Unless you were in a large city. Or in California. Or Texas. Etc.

Yes, indeedy.

I had a economics professor who loved to point out that in 20th century America, children had improved their lot from agricultural laborers to that of household pets.

[Watser?]

Originally Posted by California Tanker

Damned if I know why you did that, the figures clearly show the US stomping ahead over time.

I think the US's international weight was less than this would imply, however, as it would have taken up a stupid amount of manufacturing ability just to keep the country running: Look at how many miles of railroad needed to be built and run in 1913 vs in the UK, for example. The Global Economy of today wasn't there, all that produce has to get across the water somehow, whilst the UK's exports just needed to get across the Channel. Militarily also, the US was insignificant until mid WWII, barring the Navy.

NTM

Actually, Kennedy points out that the economy was more globally integrated in the early 20th century than at any point after WWI. Until maybe the 1990s.
You are right about the military spending. There are other statistics in there that make that clear. The US did not grow up to be a military superpower until somewhere during WWII. It didn't live up to its economic potential either until somewhere in the 1940s I think.

[Leesifer]

I was kidding!

[JamesBannon]

@ the OP

[erimir]

Originally Posted by GodPossessed

A billion is a difficult number to comprehend

So I guess this guy better not ever try to think about the trillions of dollars that are in the economy as a whole. I'm not sure he could handle it.

While this thought is still fresh in our brain, let's
take a look at New Orleans. It's amazing what
you can learn with some simple division. Louisiana
Senator, Mary Landrieu (D), is presently asking the
Congress for $250 BILLION to rebuild New Orleans.
Interesting number, what does it mean?

As Chuck pointed out, it means rebuilding infrastructure, businesses, government buildings, factories, etc. not just private residences. And a hint for the math genius who wrote this spam: those things are more expensive than houses.

[...] and Mom stayed home
to raise the kids.
[...]
And I still have to 'press 1' for English.

Mmmmmm... sexism and racism/xenophobia. Tasty.

Originally Posted by ChuckF

Wow, no telephone taxes and vehicle registration taxes 100 years ago.

Yeah... the best part about it is that there weren't any telephones or vehicles to tax in the first place! Who needs em anyway.

Originally Posted by wildernesse

I love mythical America of times past. Back when everyone spoke English. Unless you were in a large city. Or in California. Or Texas. Etc.

Or Louisiana, or Arizona, or parts of Pennsylvania, or the Sea Islands (SC), or an Indian reservation, or...

*ahem*

What I meant to say was, if English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me!

[Qingdai]

The Good Old Days, They were Terrible, by Otto L. Bettmann pretty much sums up my feelings on going back (even further) towards the "Gilded Age" society of the past.

[ChuckF]

Just to add to my post above. I've been snooping around for a breakdown of federal spending on Katrina recovery, and I found a pretty good one by Brookings. It's dated August 2006, but federal spending has slowed down and its total is more or less in line with Bush's $114 billion figure. Also, bear in mind that this is for the entire Katrina-affected area, not just New Orleans. The bulk of spending was indeed on temporary and long-term housing ($52 billion), but a maximum of $25 billion of that was in the form of direct disbursements: that includes assistance to pay insurance premiums, make repairs, and rental assistance. The rest was in community development grants, temporary housing, and loans.

$28 billion was spent on the emergency response itself (that's what $28 billion buys?) and $18.2 billion has been allocated to infrastructure repair.

Just to put the $114 billion number in perspective: in 2004 (pre-Katrina), the gross metro product of the New Orleans metro area - that is, the total value of all goods and services produced in the New Orleans metro area in 2004 - was around $58 billion (source). So it isn't as if restoring a major economic center (which happens to handle a lot of shipping cargo and petroleum on its way to the rest of America) to vitality is just some crazy liberal boondoggle.

[Deadlokd]

Originally Posted by Petra

I dunno, when I was a kid a billion was a million million. When did a billion become a thousand million, and why?

Makes the Americans feel superior. The rest of the world knows what a billion is. Have you ever wondered why so many rich people move to America? Because in America you can become a billionaire just by stepping off the plane.

"I'm a multi-millionaire in Luxembourg but I'm a billionaire in the USA."

"Is that because the American dollar is better?"

"No it's because you can't count."