Spoiled rich teenager commits fraud - you gotta read this

[Sauron]

Originally Posted by xouper

That sounds like a direct challenge to my integrity. I certainly hope you are not suggesting I'm lying here.

Challenge to your integrity? Not at all. But you're going to have to prove to me that you don't fit into that bucket, if you want me to believe that claim. On the other hand, you may not care what I believe - that's also fine.

I've just found that every libertarian I've met made the same claim that you make; they honestly believed that about themselves. No lying involved. But in the end it all boiled down to a rationalization of basic greed and almost evangelical faith in capitalism, in spite of obvious flaws.

If your view of libertarianism is that its philosophy includes the notion "I got mine fuck everyone else", then you do not have an accurate perception of what libertarianism is about.

I have an accurate perception.

[xouper]

Sauron: I have an accurate perception.

Quite clearly, you do not have an accurate perception of libertarianism.

[Sauron]

Originally Posted by xouper

Quite clearly, you do not have an accurate perception of libertarianism.

No, I do. As you're demonstrating in the Microsoft thread.

[xouper]

Sauron: I have an accurate perception.

xouper: Quite clearly, you do not have an accurate perception of libertarianism.

Sauron: No, I do. As you're demonstrating in the Microsoft thread.

Bullshit. What you posted to me in that thread is a cheap shot and false. If that's what you consider proof that you have an accurate perception of libertarianism then may I suggest you ask your old professors for a tuition refund on your courses in critical thinking.

[Sauron]

Originally Posted by xouper

Bullshit. What you posted to me in that thread is a cheap shot and false.

It is neither.

If that's what you consider proof that you have an accurate perception of libertarianism then may I suggest you ask your old professors for a tuition refund on your courses in critical thinking.

Libertarianism is precisely what I indicated - and given the large contingent of libertarians at Microsoft, I have ample experience with the topic. I even dallied with joining the libertarian party at one point; the state chair was a Microsoft employee. After he crumbled under pointed questioning, that was one of my first indications that something was amiss with the philosophy.

[viscousmemories]

Originally Posted by xouper

Bullshit. What you posted to me in that thread is a cheap shot and false. If that's what you consider proof that you have an accurate perception of libertarianism then may I suggest you ask your old professors for a tuition refund on your courses in critical thinking.

I have to agree with xouper here, Sauron. Which is to say I don't think it's logical to infer anything about his economic viewpoint from his opinion that Microsoft's reversal on support of Bill 1515 is not that big of a deal. I don't really have an opinion on whether you should ask your old professors for a refund.

[Sauron]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

I have to agree with xouper here, Sauron. Which is to say I don't think it's logical to infer anything about his economic viewpoint from his opinion that Microsoft's reversal on support of Bill 1515 is not that big of a deal. I don't really have an opinion on whether you should ask your old professors for a refund.

In my opinion, xouper is trying to square the circle here: he wants to beleive that a company can be friendly toward a group, and yet be neutral about legislation critical to that group's civil liberties.

I'm friendly to my nextdoor neighbor and her causes, but I'm not going to help her out when her husband beats her black and blue - how does that little moral dilemma work out, hmm?

You disagree - that's fine. Everyone here is free to disagree without coming to physical blows. Or the fear of massive editing.

[xouper]

Sauron: ... you're going to have to prove to me that you don't fit into that bucket, if you want me to believe that claim.

So you will pre-emptively assume I am an asshole until I prove otherwise?? Very big of you.

[Sauron]

Originally Posted by xouper

So you will pre-emptively assume I am an asshole until I prove otherwise?? Very big of you.

Trying hard to avoid invoking Godwin's law here.....

If you told me that you were Christian Identity political affiliation, would I be justified in pre-emptively assuming that you were against racial equality?

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by xouper

So you will pre-emptively assume I am an asshole until I prove otherwise?? Very big of you.

Well, I will if he doesn't.

My experience with Republican/libertarian types fits very closely into what Sauron has been describing.

I spent a summer attending Libertarian meetings....talk about the most self-centered, anti-social, greedy people I've ever associated with....it was a veritable sinkhole of "I got mine, fuck everybody else."

It also goes a long ways toward explaining why I have problems trusting Cool Hand.

[beyelzu]

I am a fiscal conservative, social liberal, in other words a little l libertarian,


so am I an asshole, godfry?


or am I more of one when you take that into consideration.

[godfry n. glad]

Yo, bub...

You're not an asshole, you're a dickhead. Look in the mirror dammit!

I'm a fiscal conservative and a social liberal, but that doesn't make me a libertarian, or a Libertarian.

I believe that government has a role in organizing society, providing justice and protecting the innocent, which explicitly excludes me from being a libertarian.

I suspect you like to think of yourself as a libertarian, but you're not really one. Given some of your comments, that is.

A true libertarian is an anarchist who believes that government has no role in society whatsoever. Of course, there can be many shades of libertarianism, down to and including those who believe that basic human rights prevail over governmental strictures...civil libertarianism...in which I would put myself.

[beyelzu]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

Yo, bub...

I'm a fiscal conservative and a social liberal, but that doesn't make me a libertarian, or a Libertarian.

I believe that government has a role in organizing society, providing justice and protecting the innocent, which explicitly excludes me from being a libertarian.

see I view this differently, in my thinking your beliefs exclude you from being a Libertarian.

I suspect you like to think of yourself as a libertarian, but you're not really one. Given some of your comments, that is.

I do believe we arent using the same definition for libertarian.

A true libertarian is an anarchist who believes that government has no role in society whatsoever. Of course, there can be many shades of libertarianism, down to and including those who believe that basic human rights prevail over governmental strictures...civil libertarianism...in which I would put myself.

I have not seen the term civil libertarian used before, I think I might still it, it sounds better than little l libertarian.

[xouper]

godfry n. glad: A true libertarian is an anarchist who believes that government has no role in society whatsoever.

Where did you get that fucked up notion of libertarianism? Even wikipedia does not agree with that definition.

By your definition I am not a libertarian.

I am also not a Libertarian, with a capital L.

By wikipedia's definition, I am both a civil and fiscal libertarian. I am not a "I got mine and fuck y'all" so you can take your misguided, ignorant, and presumptive assessment of me and shove it up your ass. Sheesh.

[Cool Hand]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

It also goes a long ways toward explaining why I have problems trusting Cool Hand.

Nice to see you too, Godfry (and I'll spell it with a capital "G" if I like). I was wondering how long it would take you to bring up your irrational hatred/distrust/whatever-you-want-to-call-it of me. Congratulations. I've been back here less than 24 hours and you've already done it.

You have been a dick to me from day one for no good reason, but you just can't admit it or let it go. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you lost it a long time ago.

Fuck it. I'm not even going to try anymore. Save your rants and your words. I have absolutely nothing to say to you.

*Plonk!*

CH

[xouper]

godfry n. glad: It also goes a long ways toward explaining why I have problems trusting Cool Hand.

Based on that comment, I no longer trust your sense of objectivity.

I would much rather live in a country full of people like Cool Hand than a bunch of socialist pig dog greedy bastards who think they are entitled to other people's wealth.




[Sidebar: For the astute logicians among us, my last comment above contains several exaggerated and intentional fallacies, including a straw man and a false dilemma. I did that for the sake of brevity since I didn't want to write a whole fucking book just to express my moral outrage at people who are not fiscal libertarians.]

[Sauron]

Originally Posted by xouper

I did that for the sake of brevity since I didn't want to write a whole fucking book just to express my moral outrage at people who are not fiscal libertarians.

You apply morality to the question of fiscal viewpoints?

I noticed that libertarians have an almost evangelical belief in the pure goodness of the free market. One of the other reasons why I distrust that particular political viewpoint.