First Amendment on the web

[flaja]

To what extent should a moderator/owner of a web forum that is open to the general public for the purpose of discussing politics be allowed to edit posts or ban posters? How much should such web forums be governed by the First Amendment?

[Ensign Steve]

Originally Posted by flaja

To what extent should a moderator/owner of a web forum that is open to the general public for the purpose of discussing politics be allowed to edit posts or ban posters?

As much as he or she feels like it, as the owner.

How much should such web forums be governed by the First Amendment?

None at all. Not the least of all because the US doesn't govern the internet.

[Pan Narrans]

Since the first amendment only talks about the powers of the federal government of the United States, it has jack all to do with political discussions on web fora.

ETA

[beyelzu]

Except that the first amendment was incorporated so it applies to pretty much all government these days. but yeah it doesn't apply at all to private property like internet sites.

[Ensign Steve]

Originally Posted by beyelzu

Except that the first amendment was incorporated so it applies to pretty much all government these days. but yeah it doesn't apply at all to private property like internet sites.

Or outside of the United States. At all.

[Wonderbread Leotard]

Al Gore invented the Internet, so naturally it's up to him.

[beyelzu]

Actually, just for the record he didn't actually say that sovereign and yeah he did.

[Farren]

Don't you people know people have natural rights?

AYN RAND SED SO

[Ensign Steve]

She didn't ask about people's rights to free speech. She asked if the web forums should be "governed" by the 1st A. If she'd said "protected" I might have a different reply.

[Farren]

True, true.

[Ensign Steve]

Anyway I knew you were joking when you invoked Ayn Rand. Or at least I hoped so!

[Farren]

You should automatically know the invocation is a joke when I don't draw a pentagram on the ground first.

[Ensign Steve]

Fair enough.

[Watser?]

I always wondered about those natural rights...

When did those natural rights came about? Did the ancestor we have in common with the apes already have them (in that case the apes have them too) or did it start somewhere later? And did Neandertals have them or just Homo Sapiens Sapiens?

[Ensign Steve]

At the risk of accidentally starting a serious discussion (not to mention a serious derail) but couldn't the same be asked of human rights? Or is there a distinction because of the "natural" word in the phrase natural rights?

[Farren]

When did those natural rights came about? Did the ancestor we have in common with the apes already have them (in that case the apes have them too) or did it start somewhere later? And did Neandertals have them or just Homo Sapiens Sapiens?

I think they came out of Ayn Rands butt, so only late 20th century/21st century homo sapiens sapiens have them.

[Farren]

JD I've always thought of human rights as a social contract. The ludicrous idea of natural rights posits rights that are inherent and don't require the endorsement of human beings other than the person claiming them.

[beyelzu]

Originally Posted by Ensign Steve

At the risk of accidentally starting a serious discussion (not to mention a serious derail) but couldn't the same be asked of human rights? Or is there a distinction because of the "natural" word in the phrase natural rights?

natural rights and human rights are basically the same thing and they came out of the enlightenment*. They were used during the nuremberg trial to try nazis.


*one could also argue that the idea can be traced much farther back in a variety of philosophical and religious sources actually.

[yguy]

Originally Posted by Farren

Don't you people know people have natural rights?

I've known it all my life. So has everyone else who isn't a psychopath.

Of course some of us have forgotten it, even if only for such relatively innocuous purposes as justifying atheism.

[Ensign Steve]

Originally Posted by Farren

JD I've always thought of human rights as a social contract. The ludicrous idea of natural rights posits rights that are inherent and don't require the endorsement of human beings other than the person claiming them.

Okay, I thought that might be the distinction, but I don't know enough about Ayn's thingie to say.

[beyelzu]

Originally Posted by Farren

JD I've always thought of human rights as a social contract. The ludicrous idea of natural rights posits rights that are inherent and don't require the endorsement of human beings other than the person claiming them.

and thats the very ludicrous idea that we use to try war crimes such as in the trials of nazis and other genocidal dipshits.

[beyelzu]

Originally Posted by Ensign Steve

Okay, I thought that might be the distinction, but I don't know enough about Ayn's thingie to say.

Ayn Rand wasn't some sort of huge champion for natural rights or anything. The idea stretches back at least as far as Antigone in the west and the Ghita in Asia.

[Ensign Steve]

Originally Posted by beyelzu

natural rights and human rights are basically the same thing and they came out of the enlightenment*. They were used during the nuremberg trial to try nazis.


*one could also argue that the idea can be traced much farther back in a variety of philosophical and religious sources actually.

I don't even know why you are even talking to me here if you are going to ignore my PM.

[Watser?]

Originally Posted by Ensign Steve

At the risk of accidentally starting a serious discussion (not to mention a serious derail) but couldn't the same be asked of human rights? Or is there a distinction because of the "natural" word in the phrase natural rights?

Isn't derail what is all about?

I think the same could be said but human rights were 'invented' after WWII and I think the inventors were aware that they were limiting them to humans as opposed to humanoids. In my view, although some say human rights have always existed in some abstract way, in reality they are very much a human construct.

[beyelzu]

Natural Rights - Freethought Forum