billy the butcher - Page 4

ChuckF · #76 12-11-2005, 08:15 AM

Quote:

i wont keep trying. in my eyes, i proved my point.

Nice sunglasses, btw.

michael1111 · #77 12-11-2005, 08:17 AM

hey thanx

michael

viscousmemories · #78 12-11-2005, 08:19 AM

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Originally Posted by michael1111

well it is for you online. you dont have the right in public. try to get close to dick cheney and tell him what you think.

I didn't say I have absolute free speech because I'm an American. There are always some restrictions on speech, even online. But in any case that isn't relevant to my point that all rights are granted, so I consider the rights granted me as a citizen of America "real" rights.

michael1111 · #79 12-11-2005, 08:25 AM

what restrictions are there online? ive not encountered any in the forums ive created or frequent. except for technical limitations, what freedoms are stripped? im curious...

michael

ChuckF · #80 12-11-2005, 08:28 AM

Advocating the assassination of the president, for example, will attract dirty looks from the Secret Service.

michael1111 · #81 12-11-2005, 08:30 AM

well thats true, but its a lot easier to say here. and that may be free speech, but it puts forth a violent truth that would just keep us bound anyhow.

and you have the right to say it...you also have the right to suffer the consequences. maybe if more people were willing to suffer by speaking their truths...its not easy, let me tell ya.

michael

viscousmemories · #82 12-11-2005, 08:32 AM

Or send some kiddie porn to the FBI.

thewantingseed · #83 12-11-2005, 08:33 AM

Or possibly the distribution of innappropriate material to children, or solicitation of minors. Btw, I believe these restrictions were first passed by the Clinton administration.
EDIT: We think alike, vm.

michael1111 · #84 12-11-2005, 08:34 AM

but why would you do that? youre free to do that, but you deserve what you get for doing it. if you take the time to promote free speech by using concepts that keep others under heel (murder, abuse...), you get what you deserve. and keep in mind- youre still free to say it.

michael

michael1111 · #85 12-11-2005, 08:36 AM

you think alike...youre both into kiddie porn!

kidding!! lol...

michael

viscousmemories · #86 12-11-2005, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael1111

and you have the right to say it...you also have the right to suffer the consequences.

Eh? If saying something has negative consequences then I would call that not having a right to say it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewantingseed

EDIT: We think alike, vm.

Odd, that.

michael1111 · #87 12-11-2005, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael1111

and you have the right to say it...you also have the right to suffer the consequences.

Eh? If saying something has negative consequences then I would call that not having a right to say it.

that makes absolutely no sense. youve already said and exercised your right. if you put forth a bad truth that harms people, dont be surprised when it comes back to bite you in the ass.

anybody who would call for the death of somebody else, does not know anything about freedom. i would like to see dick cheney removed from office, but i dont want to see anybody killed. still...i have the right to take the chance and say it...i also have the right to suffer the consequences..

michael

ChuckF · #88 12-11-2005, 08:41 AM

I mean this in the nicest way possible...for a self-professed fan of "debate," you really, really suck at it.

viscousmemories · #89 12-11-2005, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael1111

that makes absolutely no sense. youve already said and exercised your right. if you put forth a bad truth that harms people, dont be surprised when it comes back to bite you in the ass.

So you're saying that giving someone life in prison for shouting "To hell with Bush!" in the town square wouldn't violate their right to free speech?

michael1111 · #90 12-11-2005, 08:44 AM

yes it would. im not saying you have free speech without consequence in the 'real' world. i was mostly talking online. that said, you still have the freedom to say that, just as you are free to suffer the consequences. maybe you should say something more constructive. why dont you yell at your neighbours who implement all the nasty deeds people like bush get credit for. maybe you wont go to jail...

michael

michael1111 · #91 12-11-2005, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckF

I mean this in the nicest way possible...for a self-professed fan of "debate," you really, really suck at it.

no i dont.

michael

viscousmemories · #92 12-11-2005, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael1111

that said, you still have the freedom to say that, just as you are free to suffer the consequences.

As I keep saying, this is meaningless to me. Going to prison is not a "right" or a "freedom" as I understand the words.

michael1111 · #93 12-11-2005, 08:52 AM

ok...i can see how this is getting confusing. im even getting confused.

you are free to do whatever you want, even if it means going to prison. you are free to put your hand in boiling water, even though it will scald you. i dont think free speech, a healthy version of it, exists at all in the 'real' world for the reasons youre saying. but still, boiled down, youre free to say it.

i was given examples of things that you cant say, but they were all things that step on other peoples freedoms- murder and abuse. so i tried to say that you reap what you sow. if thats your idea of freedom of speech, you deserve to go to jail because it fits in your version.

i do think real free speech can be practiced online.

michael

thewantingseed · #94 12-11-2005, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael1111

yes it would. im not saying you have free speech without consequence in the 'real' world. i was mostly talking online. that said, you still have the freedom to say that, just as you are free to suffer the consequences. maybe you should say something more constructive. why dont you yell at your neighbours who implement all the nasty deeds people like bush get credit for. maybe you wont go to jail..

There are most definitely consequences online as well.
Perhaps, as so often happens when discussing an issue with you, a definition is in order:

Quote:

Freedom:
the condition of being free; the power to act or speak or think without externally imposed restraints
exemption: immunity from an obligation or duty

I would say that there are restrictions on saying certain things; hence you are not 'free' to say them. Yes, you are physically capable of uttering words that promote assasination, but you are not 'free' to do so. By your definition of freedom, even people living under Hitler, Stalin or Castro had the freedom to do whatever they wanted.

michael1111 · #95 12-11-2005, 09:02 AM

you are free to do so. think about it- what if everybody exercised their freedom and more people spoke up? what if more people were willing to go to jail? what if we exercised the freedom we are all born with? maybe things would change...

and there is absolute freedom online. i create it and experience it. its totally possible.

michael

michael1111 · #96 12-11-2005, 09:06 AM

maybe if people started to act free, we would be free? what are we scared of? its not dick cheney, bush or rummy that will come and arrest you. its not them who will guard you in prison. its your slave neighbours that do that, sitting on their own freedom and making sure they have company...im raving again!

michael

thewantingseed · #97 12-11-2005, 09:07 AM

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Originally Posted by Michael1111

and there is absolute freedom online. i create it and experience it. its totally possible.

Tell that to to all these guys.

viscousmemories · #98 12-11-2005, 09:09 AM

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Originally Posted by michael1111

im raving again!

On this we agree.

ChuckF · #99 12-11-2005, 09:09 AM

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Originally Posted by thewantingseed

Tell that to to all these guys.

Ah, but see, this is michael1111's personal truth, which places it above inquiry and renders it totally impervious to overwhelming contrary evidence. :yup:

michael1111 · #**100** 12-11-2005, 09:21 AM

hello...they had the right to say it and they did. they are also pedophiles and criminals. why do you keep using criminals as your example as to how free speech doesnt work? they deserve to be arrested, but they also have the right to get themselves into that situation....

its not a personal truth. and im addressing the evidence. this time im just looking at it logically, whether you think so or not.

michael