A revolution in thought

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by thedoc

Then you need to get help Peacegirl, I'm sure if you ask, your family would help you find some appropriate professional help.

I knew someone would use my comment against me. I know you all so well.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

So consider your options. You are in a bit of a bind, as you refuse to discuss any of your own material and you're completely incapable of leaving. Will you link to a few more anti-science crackpots for us? Provide more pointless 'intermission' links? Or perhaps just continue by insulting us and whining about how unfair we all are?

None of the above.

Choice D: Move on.

[Spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I'm talking numerical also.

I know you are.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

What gave you the idea that I am talking qualitative?

I don't think that. You seemed to think that I was speaking of qualitative identity because you accused me of viewing the connection of identity as relating to the psychological qualities that make me who I am. That was not the case. I was only speaking of numerical identity, just as you are.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

He gives an example of the hydra, whose head falls off and another head comes on. The YOU that was number 2 that just fell off is the same number 2 when the new head appears.

What is his argument for this?

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Anyway, this is getting old. People are challenging me without really trying to understand...

I'm trying to understand. I'm right here asking you about it. Right here and now.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

How do you think I am ever going to explain this knowledge with this deliberate resistance?

Step 1: Try explaining it.

[Spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

None of the above.

Choice D: Move on.

That isn't an option for you. You are not capable of this.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Did you know that children perceive looming cars much less well than adults do?

Reduced Sensitivity to Visual Looming Inflates the Risk Posed by Speeding Vehicles When Children Try to Cross the Road

That's why very young children should not be trusted to cross by themselves. I read that children may think cars are friendly creatures and could walk out to greet them.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

That isn't an option for you. You are not capable of this.

I know you're trying to egg me on. Only when I don't come back will you know the answer.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I'm talking numerical also.

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

I know you are.

So why the need to qualify numerical and qualitative?

Originally Posted by peacegirl

What gave you the idea that I am talking qualitative?

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

I don't think that. You seemed to think that I was speaking of qualitative identity because you accused me of viewing the connection of identity as relating to the psychological qualities that make me who I am. That was not the case. I was only speaking of numerical identity, just as you are.

Fine, then we're on the same page, but I'm not interested in continuing this conversation. It's draining.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

He gives an example of the hydra, whose head falls off and another head comes on. The YOU that was number 2 that just fell off is the same number 2 when the new head appears.

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

What is his argument for this?

It's an inference based on the clues that were given. You cannot prove this through the scientific method because no one has died and come back.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Anyway, this is getting old. People are challenging me without really trying to understand...

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

I'm trying to understand. I'm right here asking you about it. Right here and now.

But I've lost hope already. You will fight me tooth and nail just like you have fought me on his other discoveries. You think it's all bollocks.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

How do you think I am ever going to explain this knowledge with this deliberate resistance?

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

Step 1: Try explaining it.

Ughhhhhh. What do you think I've been doing? Playing tiddly winks?

[Spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

It's an inference based on the clues that were given. You cannot prove this through the scientific method because no one has died and come back.

That is a non-answer. A weasel. An evasion. What is his reasoning for thinking that the next consciousness will be numerically identical to the previous one? Why does he think our consciousness will be reborn?

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Ughhhhhh. What do you think I've been doing? Playing tiddly winks?

Weaseling and evading. Just as you've done in this post. Just as you've been doing on every topic you've discussed here for the last two years.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

That is a non-answer. A weasel. An evasion. What is his reasoning for thinking that the next consciousness will be numerically identical to the previous one? Why does he think our consciousness will be reborn?

Weaseling and evading. Just as you've done in this post. Just as you've been doing on every topic you've discussed here for the last two years.

Based on the definitions given if this is 'numerical identical', the person being born would have the same consciousness of the person who has died, And to me that would include all the memories and knowlecge of the person who has died. Only with 'qualitatively identical' can the memories and knowledge not be included, as then it would be a consciousness like the previous consciousness but not the exact same consciousness. How can it be numerical and not include the memories and knowledge of the previous?

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by Angakuk

True, but it is not wasted on the rest of us.

Yes, please continue, appart from the actual science and other real information being presented, Sarcasm is my favorite part. Even when directed at me, I can always turn it around and use it on someone else.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Ughhhhhh. What do you think I've been doing? Playing tiddly winks?

If you are playing 'tiddly winks' you are certainly loosing, you have not gotten any in the cup, as none of your answers have hit the mark by actually addressing the question asked. Your score stands at 0, and it appears that is where it will stay, along with Lessans, who has also missed the cup on every shot he has taken.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I knew someone would use my comment against me. I know you all so well.

If you know us all that well, why aren't you straight froward and honest with us?

[ChristinaM]

Maybe his version of consciousness is like some sort of cosmic clothing floating around. When you get born you get a set of consciousness clothes and when you die your clothes go floating across the death-gap and someone else has to put them on. Your clothing has forgotten all about you but you should rejoice anyway knowing that at some time in the future someone else is going to wear your hand-me-downs even if they don't know who donated them to the cosmic goodwill store in the first place.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I read that children may think cars are friendly creatures and could walk out to greet them.

In Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy(movie version) an alien does that.

Although Ford had taken great care to blend into Earth society, he had "skimped a bit on his preparatory research," and thought that the name "Ford Prefect" would be "nicely inconspicuous." Adams later clarified in an interview that Ford "had simply mistaken the dominant life form." The Ford Prefect was, in fact, a British car manufactured from 1938 to 1961. This was expanded on somewhat in the film version, where Ford is almost run over while attempting to greet a blue Ford Prefect. He is saved by Arthur and, in the film version of events at least, this is how the pair meet.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

You are of the mindset that there is a connection when you say "the same consciousness", therefore you will not understand this concept. There is no "same" consciousness. All he is trying to show is that your consciousness (not Spacemonkey, the individual that makes you who you are today) will always be here.

Then why not say a consciousness since the pronouns you and yours refer to the individual person you are speaking to?

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Then why not say a consciousness since the pronouns you and yours refer to the individual person you are speaking to?

I agree, if it is "your consciousness" it would include all the things that make you who you are. If it looses all those individual identies, it becomes "A consciousness" and can then become another person.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

In Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy an alien does that.

Was that the part where they used the Babel fish to prove the non-existance of God, black was white, and white was black, and then were run down at a Zebra Crossing?

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by ChristinaM

Maybe his version of consciousness is like some sort of cosmic clothing floating around. When you get born you get a set of consciousness clothes and when you die your clothes go floating across the death-gap and someone else has to put them on. Your clothing has forgotten all about you but you should rejoice anyway knowing that at some time in the future someone else is going to wear your hand-me-downs even if they don't know who donated them to the cosmic goodwill store in the first place.

Then we must assume that the clothing goes through some sort of cosmic laundry, to wash out all the stinky bits, so it's fresh and clean for the next person. Locally we have a Salvation Army family store that has some real bargans, and it helps a good cause.

[thedoc]

Is Lessans now running that cosmic laundry?

[LadyShea]

Did Lessans believe consciousness was an emergent property of a living brain, or something completely separate from the mind?

[ChristinaM]

Originally Posted by thedoc

Then we must assume that the clothing goes through some sort of cosmic laundry, to wash out all the stinky bits, so it's fresh and clean for the next person. Locally we have a Salvation Army family store that has some real bargans, and it helps a good cause.

Haha - I almost added a part about a cosmic dry cleaner that gets any remaining bits of <insert some pronoun because I give up as to which one to use> but it's too early for me to play the personal pronoun game again without decompensating into a babbling pile of "fuck this".

[ChristinaM]

Spacemonkey (or anyone else) how did that thread finally end on IIDB? I can't remember whether I just wandered off bored after several thousand posts about vision or if it was in the middle of the diaspora and I was just distracted. Has she ever just gotten tired of it all and left for good without the thread being locked first?

[LadyShea]

From what I can tell, all the IIDB threads got locked. Most of her threads around the web got locked.

We don't moderate here, hence her trouble leaving....and hence her utterly baffling whines about her "terrible" treatment here and need for compassion for "what she is going through", since participation and even visitation here is entirely voluntary on her part.

[ChristinaM]

I was just wondering if the show ever ends without someone having to cut the mike and drag her offstage.

[LadyShea]

She has tried a couple of times. I think the longest lasted several weeks but most are just a few days, and so far she has always comes back. When she does return from one of these breaks it's like she has had a memory wipe...we took to calling them "resets". It seems to bother her that when she leaves we continue posting in the thread, and she doesn't want anything we say to go unanswered.

I am personally waiting for either a drama exit flail, or a deconversion from Lessantology. Maybe she'll surprise me with a quiet and unannounced permanent exit.