A revolution in thought

[Stephen Maturin]

Originally Posted by davidm

Unfortunately, it appears that the BAUT forum has been swallowed up by another astronomy forum, and a search of their archives, using all the key words I can think of, does not yield the thread in question.

Isn't this it?

Originally Posted by davidm

All that matters is the maundering of a seventh-grade dropout, an aluminum siding salesman and a pool hustler! Why? Because, well, he just made astute observations that, unfortunately, bear no relation to reality.

And poon-obsessed. Don't forget the poon-obsession. It was the visions of nipples and labia dancing though Seymour's minuscule brain that made his observations so very astute.

[davidm]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I added those examples. They were mine, and what I said is true. In the new world vaccines will not be mandatory because no doctor or government agency will ever take the responsibility of telling someone what to inject in their children for fear something could go wrong, for which they would be excused.

But vaccines are not mandatory in the United States now. Which has been explained to you. Are you insane? Here, dumb ass, check this out:

U.S. vaccination policy

Oh, and look at this, from the link above, in case you don't read it, which is what I expect.

A widespread and growing number of parents falsely claim religious and philosophical beliefs to get vaccination exemptions, and an increasing number of disease outbreaks have come from communities where herd immunity was lost due to insufficient vaccination.

This is a warning. ... <snip>

LOL, fuck you.

Hey, asshat, why, when NASA bounces lasers off the moon, do we see the light in twice the time that Lessans' stupid claims predict?

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I read the thread David, and there was nothing new said.

You claim that you read the thread, but I don't believe you, you need to go back and read it again till you agree with it and understand it.

[davidm]

Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin

Isn't this it?

That is it, Mr. Maturin. I bow before your better search skills. Although you may be 60 percent unfree and all hair and no substance, and although your real name may be Alois Shicklgruber, you are a gentleman and a scholar.

And poon-obsessed. Don't forget the poon-obsession. It was the visions of nipples and labia dancing though Seymour's minuscule brain that made his observations so very astute.

Pool and poon.

[The Lone Ranger]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

As far as the calculations, there is no proof that the space/time delay has any major consequence in trajectory or hitting the target.

Actually, yes there is. As I pointed out back then, the math is very simple, and I'd bet that even you could do it: given Mars' orbital velocity and distance, failing to factor in the lightspeed delay would result in the probe being off by a distance greater than the planet's diameter. That is, it wouldn't just miss its target area, it'd miss the planet entirely.

If there was, they would talk about it more, but they don't.

What a remarkably ignorant claim. Why would planetary scientists waste time talking about something they all know and understand? Do you think that nautical engineers constantly say to each other, "Remember, guys; the ships we're designing operate in water, so don't forget to make them watertight."? Do you think that designers of manned spacecraft constantly say to themselves, "Remember, guys; there's no air in space, so make sure you make these things airtight!"?

I can't find anything other than that one page that LadyShea found which no one understood, including you.

Wanna bet? Just because you couldn't understand it doesn't mean that no one else did.

[davidm]

Well, peacegirl, now we have the thread in question. Shall we check out what was really said in that thread, as opposed to your lie about what was said in it? Whaddya think?

[davidm]

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

What a remarkably ignorant claim. Why would planetary scientists waste time talking about something they all know and understand. Do you think that nautical engineers constantly say to each other, "Remember, guys; the ships we're designing operate in water, so don't forget to make them watertight." Do you think that designers of manned spacecraft constantly say to themselves, "Remember, guys; there's no air in space, so make sure you make these things airtight!"?

[davidm]

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

As I pointed out back then, the math is very simple, and I'd bet that even you could do it: given Mars' orbital velocity and distance, failing to factor in the lightspeed delay would result in the probe being off by a distance greater than the planet's diameter. That is, it wouldn't just miss its target area, it'd miss the planet entirely.

It should be remembered that peacegirl memorably claimed that Mars is so HUGE that we would hit it anyway, no matter what calculations we used!

[Cynthia of Syracuse]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

There is no morally right and wrong in this situation; just what a parent feels is the best for their child.

This right here is the essence of Janis' (and most other woo-mongers/crackpots) defect. They feel when what they need to do is think. They seem unable to comprehend that reality doesn't give a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut how some self-replicating bag of salt water & carbon feels about it. It doesn't matter how anybody feels about gravity, if you trip, you fall. It doesn't matter how anybody feels about thermodynamics, when you swing a pendulum, it will run down. It doesn't matter how anybody feels about Giardia, if you drink infested water, you will get the trots (among other nasty sequelae).

It is morally wrong to tell a parent what to do because you don't know how a vaccine is going to affect their child.

It is far more morally wrong to encourage a parent to make important, potentially lifesaving decisions based on ignorance, FUD, and wishful thinking instead of facts and evidence, especially when those decisions can result in adverse consequences for dozens if not hundreds of innocent bystanders including their own child.

How would you feel if you told a parent that a particular vaccine was good for their child, and they were one of the unlucky ones and the child was hurt by the very vaccine that was meant to help him?

Very sad, but how I feel about would not mean that I was wrong to give such advice, given it was based on the best current evidence and risk/benefit analysis. It would be the unfortunate and greatly regrettable outcome of living in an impersonal universe that doesn't revolve around what we want.

How would you feel if you told a parent that a particular vaccine was bad for their child, and they were one of the unlucky ones who's child was made ill, suffered permanent disability, or died from the disease that vaccine could have prevented, given that your advice would be based on wishful thinking, statistical illiteracy, and willful ignorance of relevant evidence and how to evaluate it?* Guess which of these scenarios is more likely to occur in the real world?

In the new world doctors will leave it up to parents based on the most updated information, but never would they tell a parent what to do. Why would they take this risk, and feel terrible guilt if something bad happened? There would be no reason.

This here is the secondary foundation of Janis' defect and the flaw that would prevent the "new world" from functioning for more than about a week if implemented: utter self-absorption. Our hypothetical doctor's feelings are more important than a child's well-being. What's going on in someone's head (hell, something that might, possibly, maybe someday, go on in someone's head) carries more weight in determining a course of action than something happening in the real world, right now. Mommy's feelings about vaccinations are far more valuable than a child's health. Apparently reducing and/or eliminating infectious diseases that have maimed and killed hundreds of thousands of people over thousands of years is not a good enough reason to chance feeling a bit of guilt. Who knew?

Lessan's New World: in a universe of cowards, the sociopath is king.

*It's a pretty safe bet that you wouldn't feel anything at all, since your Olympic-quality mental gymnastics would undoubtedly enable you to find someone or something besides yourself to blame in a matter of seconds.

[Angakuk]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I added those examples. They were mine, and what I said is true.

Given the amount of stuff you added to Lessans' book you really should list yourself as co-author.

[Vivisectus]

dupe

[Vivisectus]

[quote]

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

Actually, yes there is. As I pointed out back then, the math is very simple, and I'd bet that even you could do it: given Mars' orbital velocity and distance, failing to factor in the lightspeed delay would result in the probe being off by a distance greater than the planet's diameter. That is, it wouldn't just miss its target area, it'd miss the planet entirely.

In fact, I seem to remember writing it out and walking you through the math. It is dishonest to then bring it up again like this, pretending this was never explained to you.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by davidm

But vaccines are not mandatory in the United States now. Which has been explained to you. Are you insane? Here, dumb ass, check this out:

U.S. vaccination policy

Oh, and look at this, from the link above, in case you don't read it, which is what I expect.

LOL, fuck you.

Hey, asshat, why, when NASA bounces lasers off the moon, do we see the light in twice the time that Lessans' stupid claims predict?

You can't control yourself, can you? Your ad hominems only show how desperate you are to be right even though you're not sure. Because you can't act civil, back to ignore island you go. Bye bye!

[peacegirl]

In fact, I seem to remember writing it out and walking you through the math. It is dishonest to then bring it up again like this, pretending this was never explained to you.

I don't remember you explaining this to me in mathematical terms. If you can find articles on this subject that might be helpful. I couldn't find any.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Angakuk

Given the amount of stuff you added to Lessans' book you really should list yourself as co-author.

Not at all Angakuk; I just added some examples. I did not make the discovery and I will not take credit for it.

[peacegirl]

It's interesting to watch the vitriol in here and the obnoxious behavior when people think I'm getting the upper hand. They keep repeating the same stupid out of context garbage (my father had much more observational skill and reasoning ability than any of them put together) over and over again because they can't find anything else to criticize. I actually find it humorous that they believe these very nasty posts are going to turn people against me. It is a reflection on their inability to accept that science may have gotten it wrong, and they just can't stand it so they have to respond this way. I have no idea why they are all here spending hours of their life wasted on Lessans unless they feel threatened in some way. It's quite amusing and very ironic.

[Spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

It's interesting to watch the vitriol in here and the obnoxious behavior when people think I'm getting the upper hand.

But no-one thinks you're getting the upper hand.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

They keep repeating the same stupid out of context garbage (my father had much more observational skill and reasoning ability than any of them put together)...

That's certainly a good example of out of context garbage right there.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I have no idea...

Yes, we know.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

...why they are all here spending hours of their life wasted on Lessans unless they feel threatened in some way. It's quite amusing and very ironic.

You just answered your own question. We are here not because we are threatened, but because your posts are quite amusing and very ironic.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

Actually, yes there is. As I pointed out back then, the math is very simple, and I'd bet that even you could do it: given Mars' orbital velocity and distance, failing to factor in the lightspeed delay would result in the probe being off by a distance greater than the planet's diameter. That is, it wouldn't just miss its target area, it'd miss the planet entirely.

What a remarkably ignorant claim. Why would planetary scientists waste time talking about something they all know and understand? Do you think that nautical engineers constantly say to each other, "Remember, guys; the ships we're designing operate in water, so don't forget to make them watertight."? Do you think that designers of manned spacecraft constantly say to themselves, "Remember, guys; there's no air in space, so make sure you make these things airtight!"?

Wanna bet? Just because you couldn't understand it doesn't mean that no one else did.

I think there would be some discussion somewhere from experienced Nasa retirees, but I don't see anything. You say why should there be, and I say why shouldn't there be? You said "there is actual proof that that given Mars' orbital velocity and distance, failing to factor in the lightspeed delay would result in the probe being off by a distance greater than the planet's diameter. That is, it wouldn't just miss its target area, it'd miss the planet entirely." There are articles explaining every aspect of space flight, so where is the article explaining lightspeed delay, and how significant it is in reaching the target planet?

[peacegirl]

[quote=Spacemonkey;1151504]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

It's interesting to watch the vitriol in here and the obnoxious behavior when people think I'm getting the upper hand.

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

But no-one thinks you're getting the upper hand.

Whatever it is, it would be an interesting psychology experiment to determine what draws people to this thread.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

They keep repeating the same stupid out of context garbage (my father had much more observational skill and reasoning ability than any of them put together)...

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

That's certainly a good example of out of context garbage right there.

Nope, there is nothing I wrote that is out of context. You are now grasping at anything like a little child who cannot accept that he lost the game.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

...why they are all here spending hours of their life wasted on Lessans unless they feel threatened in some way. It's quite amusing and very ironic.

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

You just answered your own question. We are here not because we are threatened, but because your posts are quite amusing and very ironic.

No, there is something else going on than just for entertainment. After awhile the same responses would get quite boring, but for a discussion to last over 2 years is quite unusual, and I do believe people are threatened by this discovery, which is why they're glued to this thread.

[LadyShea]

Whatever it is, it would be an interesting psychology experiment to determine what draws people to this thread.

No experiment necessary, the draw is YOU, peacegirl. I've told you this many times.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

No experiment necessary, the draw is YOU, peacegirl. I've told you this many times.

It's just like people rubbernecking at a traffic accident, and Peacegirl is the wreck, and everyone else is the tow truck, trying to move her out of the way and into reality.

[Spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Whatever it is, it would be an interesting psychology experiment to determine what draws people to this thread.

Everyone but you already knows exactly what draws people to this thread.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Nope, there is nothing I wrote that is out of context. You are now grasping at anything like a little child who cannot accept that he lost the game.

The only one who has lost here is you. You've been refuted on every point you've raised so many times that you refuse to discuss any of your own topics any further.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

No, there is something else going on than just for entertainment. After awhile the same responses would get quite boring, but for a discussion to last over 2 years is quite unusual, and I do believe people are threatened by this discovery, which is why they're glued to this thread.

Yes, you believe that because you cannot face the truth - that people are here because they are entertained by your lunacy.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

No experiment necessary, the draw is YOU, peacegirl. I've told you this many times.

Sorry LadyShea, there's more to it than this. I'm a great excuse.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

Everyone but you already knows exactly what draws people to this thread.

The only one who has lost here is you. You've been refuted on every point you've raised so many times that you refuse to discuss any of your own topics any further.

Yes, you believe that because you cannot face the truth - that people are here because they are entertained by your lunacy.

Spacemonkey, you are not a deep thinker. You have been given what you've been taught, and you will not even consider the possibility that your reasoning power is limited, and therefore could be wrong. I have no desire to continue the conversation with you. You will continue to think you are the winner (even when the world could benefit from this knowledge), and I know you're not.

[Stephen Maturin]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Whatever it is, it would be an interesting psychology experiment to determine what draws people to this thread.

OMG the dumbass who never, ever psychoanalyzes anyone is psychoanalyzing us. Again!