A revolution in thought

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by But

Did you read the link? The position and orientation of the rovers and thereby the position and orientation of Mars relative to Earth can be measured to within a few meters with Doppler radar alone. Then images of orbiting spacecraft and the rover's own camera images narrow the position down to the exact location.

You're not going to find a loophole, sorry.

All this is great, but I still don't see where there is a difference in what is seen from Earth versus from rover.

[Spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

Bump.

Bump.

[The Lone Ranger]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

All this is great, but I still don't see where there is a difference in what is seen from Earth versus from rover.

You don't? Really?


Okay, consider the facts.

1.) We can easily see when sunset occurs at any point on Mars, just by looking with our telescopes.

2.) We have on-site probes with on-board clocks that can see when sunset occurs.

3.) When we ask the probe, "What time did you see the sunset?", we find that the probe always sees the sunset 5 minutes or so before we do.

This is not due to the delay in communication between Earth and Mars, because the probe timestamps its images.

Suppose I take a picture of a clock at exactly noon: 12:00:00. Then I e-mail that picture to you. Do you honestly think that when you receive the e-mail and read it, it will show a picture of a clock that reads 12:01:25?

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

All this is great, but I still don't see where there is a difference in what is seen from Earth versus from rover.

The time indicated on the photo from the Rover would indicate a 5 minute delay in what was photographed by the rover, and what was observed from the Earth through a telescope. And Yes, we do have telescopes powerful enough, and know the position of the Rover well enough, to know exactly when the Rover would see the Sunset on Mars. There is approximately a 5 minute delay which proves that we see the actual event in delayed time. LESSANS WAS WRONG

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

How is it possible to see sunset occur for rover by looking looking our telescopes when earth telescopes don't have that kind of magnification? We receive data sent to us by rover, which is delayed because it takes time to transmit the data.

Your willful ignorance is showing.

[thedoc]

Willful Ignorance is just another form of lying.

[thedoc]

Are they talking about Peacegirl?

Conspiracy theorists... and Zeitgeist - The Atheist Experience #679 - YouTube

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

You don't? Really?


Okay, consider the facts.

1.) We can easily see when sunset occurs at any point on Mars, just by looking with our telescopes.

2.) We have on-site probes with on-board clocks that can see when sunset occurs.

3.) When we ask the probe, "What time did you see the sunset?", we find that the probe always sees the sunset 5 minutes or so before we do.

This is not due to the delay in communication between Earth and Mars, because the probe timestamps its images.

Suppose I take a picture of a clock at exactly noon: 12:00:00. Then I e-mail that picture to you. Do you honestly think that when you receive the e-mail and read it, it will show a picture of a clock that reads 12:01:25?

No, I don't. The photograph and the timestamp is being sent. That is different than an object reflecting the information in the light itself.

[Spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

Bump.

Bump.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

No, I don't. The photograph and the time stamp is being sent. That is different than an object reflecting the information in the light itself.

That is correct, but the point is that when the photo with the time stamp and the observation of the same event observed from Earth are compared, the observation from Earth occurs about 5 minutes after the event happens on Mars, (as verified by the photo taken by Rover with a time stamp, and NO the clocks are not keeping different times. The clocks have been synchronized to be keeping the same time,). Thus proving that what we see with the eyes is delayed by the time it takes light to travel here from Mars. One small correction, the information is not sent "in the light" the light is the information.

[Vivisectus]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

No, I don't. The photograph and the timestamp is being sent. That is different than an object reflecting the information in the light itself.

Think of it this way. We have 2 cameras that take time-stamped pictures

One is on the rover. It takes a picture and records the time when a sunset happens.

The other one takes a picture from earth, and it takes a picture and records the time when the big shadow that indicates the sunset reaches the rover.

Later we compare both pictures.

If sight was instant they should both have recorded the same time: we see the sunset happening from earth at the same time the rover sees it on mars.

If sight is not instant, then there should be a difference: the rover sees it first, and we see it a few minutes later because it takes a while for the light to reach us.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by thedoc

That is correct, but the point is that when the photo with the time stamp and the observation of the same event observed from Earth are compared, the observation from Earth occurs about 5 minutes after the event happens on Mars, (as verified by the photo taken by Rover with a time stamp, and NO the clocks are not keeping different times. The clocks have been synchronized to be keeping the same time,). Thus proving that what we see with the eyes is delayed by the time it takes light to travel here from Mars. One small correction, the information is not sent "in the light" the light is the information.

If telescopes are not that powerful from earth (which they aren't or we wouldn't need rovers and probes to send back data), how is it possible to observe small nuances in location of the sunset in a 5 minute interval? Show me the proof that the exact timing of the sunset is seen after a 5 minute delay. There should be videos of this.

[The Lone Ranger]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

If telescopes are not that powerful from earth (which they aren't or we wouldn't need rovers and probes to send back data), how is it possible to observe small nuances in location of the sunset in a 5 minute interval?

Seriously? You can't be that stupid!

We have satellites in orbit (many with on-board cameras with telescopic lenses) observing Earth! Some things are easier to see from an outside perspective.



By the way, here's a picture of Mars taken from Earth, by the Hubble telescope. Why yes, yes we can see Mars' surface with sufficient detail to know exactly when sunset occurs anywhere on the surface.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

If telescopes are not that powerful from earth (which they aren't or we wouldn't need rovers and probes to send back data), how is it possible to observe small nuances in location of the sunset in a 5 minute interval? Show me the proof that the exact timing of the sunset is seen after a 5 minute delay. There should be videos of this.

Telescopes are that powerful, and the reason we need Rovers on Mars is to collect and analyse samples, you can't really be that stupid. Look up your own video and quit expecting others to spoon feed you information that you can find if you look. Since you refuse to provide any explanation of your father's silly book, and demand that they read the book till they agree with it themselves, why should anyone else give you information that you could look up for yourself? The only reason you don't look it up is because you don't want to admit that it exists, so if you don't see it you can deny it.

However here is one video of Mars with the terminator clearly visible.

Mars Globe Rotation with Crazy Topography - YouTube

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by thedoc

Telescopes are that powerful, and the reason we need Rovers on Mars is to collect and analyse samples, you can't really be that stupid. Look up your own video and quit expecting others to spoon feed you information that you can find if you look. Since you refuse to provide any explanation of your father's silly book, and demand that they read the book till they agree with it themselves, why should anyone else give you information that you could look up for yourself? The only reason you don't look it up is because you don't want to admit that it exists, so if you don't see it you can deny it.

However here is one video of Mars with the terminator clearly visible.

Mars Globe Rotation with Crazy Topography - YouTube

I have had to spoon feed people here, not the other way around. The reason you say this is because you can't find the proof or you would offer it. How disgusting you will feel when you learn he was right. That smirk will turn to sorrow for things you have said to degrade this man.

[davidm]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I have had to spoon feed people here, not the other way around.

You are such a stupid, ignorant, arrogant little twat.

You definitely inherited your simple-minded father's utter ignorance of everything. But you also inherited his unseemly, overweening arrogance.

As I've said before, you are a chip off the old blockhead.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I have had to spoon feed people here, not the other way around. The reason you say this is because you can't find the proof or you would offer it. How disgusting you will feel when you learn he was right. That smirk will turn to sorrow for things you have said to degrade this man.

NO you have NOT, when asked for elaboration on something your father wrote you have simply copy-pasted some of your fathers incomprehensible drivel as an explanation. When you do post something yourself, it is the most ridiculous nonsense that no-one else can make any real sense out of it and it's all based on your fathers book that has been demonstrated to be incorrect many times.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

Seriously? You can't be that stupid!

Actually Peacegirl can, she has been working at it for many years now.

[But]

Take Jupiter. Here you have the same effect as with Mars, but more extreme. Its day is shorter than that of Mars; it rotates around its axis once every 9 hours and 56 minutes. Hubble takes high resolution photos of Jupiter from a distance of about 3000 light seconds, which is almost a light hour.

Hubble Captures New Changes in Jupiter's Great Red Spot | NASA

The spacecraft Cassini took pictures from a distance of 30 light seconds. In 3000 seconds Jupiter has rotated by 30 degrees.

Jupiter Gets A Close-Up | NASA

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by thedoc

NO you have NOT, when asked for elaboration on something your father wrote you have simply copy-pasted some of your fathers incomprehensible drivel as an explanation. When you do post something yourself, it is the most ridiculous nonsense that no-one else can make any real sense out of it and it's all based on your fathers book that has been demonstrated to be incorrect many times.

What a crock. All you have done this whole time is to tell me how wrong my father was, without understanding a thing.

[The Lone Ranger]

And yet, as comparisons between Earth-based observations and observations by on-site probes demonstrate, it is a fact that we see in delayed time.

[Spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

Bump.

Bump.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by But

Take Jupiter. Here you have the same effect as with Mars, but more extreme. Its day is shorter than that of Mars; it rotates around its axis once every 9 hours and 56 minutes. Hubble takes high resolution photos of Jupiter from a distance of about 3000 light seconds, which is almost a light hour.

Hubble Captures New Changes in Jupiter's Great Red Spot | NASA

The spacecraft Cassini took pictures from a distance of 30 light seconds. In 3000 seconds Jupiter has rotated by 30 degrees.

Jupiter Gets A Close-Up | NASA

All of the images that Hubble captures is great, but it does not prove that these pictures aren't in real time. We're back to square one.

[thedoc]

Peacegitl, do you know the difference between exothermic and endothermic, and can you explain in simple terms because we are all simpletons here, just waiting for you to dispense wisdom and knowledge.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

And yet, as comparisons between Earth-based observations and observations by on-site probes demonstrate, it is a fact that we see in delayed time.

I have yet to see the proof; side by side pictures of the same event occurring 5 minutes later.