Ok , honest question for feminists

[ZEZOZE]

because the libertarian never mentioned black men in the op.

just men.

people love talking about racism here. i don't think most people are honest about why that is. i think we're all racists. i mean everybody in the whole world.

very chivalrous how the ladies were defended. it's like a feminist's boob popped out and it was just an automatic response to distract everybody by pointing at a black guy. then everybody turns back around to see the feminist's boob still hanging out. it's all very confusing.

[Ari]

Originally Posted by ZEZOZE

because the libertarian never mentioned black men in the op.
just men.

Yes you're right, and I thought Cept's response covered why men were more likely to be in prison than women, however that wasn't the whole question, which was "Why the vast majority of inmates are male?" To answer the whole question of why it's not just a majority but a vast majority we must look at race. See that massive uptick in Men going to prison, with only a slight uptick in Women going to prison? That's the war on drugs, which as previous mentioned is a war on race. Thus the reason there is such a huge number of men in prison compared to women is a direct result of the incarceration of black men.



Of course if you want to get to the question of why the female incarceration rate is so extremely low, I would argue it's in part because many women are being punished through other means than the criminal justice system combined with the fact that historically female incarceration happens through other means such as mental hospitals or their own homes.

[ZEZOZE]

Originally Posted by Ari

Of course if you want to get to the question of why the female incarceration rate is so extremely low, I would argue it's in part because many women are being punished through other means than the criminal justice system combined with the fact that historically female incarceration happens through other means such as mental hospitals or their own homes.

of course. that was the question. and that's a good theory.

i still think it's because guys are more prone to stupidity.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ZEZOZE

because the libertarian never mentioned black men in the op.

Um...OK. So..

How does Ari pointing out, without having been specifically asked about it, that the prison-industrial complex is massively biased against black men in particular demonstrate his holding "[t]he belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races"? Are you counting "being discriminated against by the prison-industrial complex" as a "characteristic, ability, or quality"?

Is that better?

[ZEZOZE]

well maybe he thinks they're superior, just treated unjustly.

you seem to think i'm saying something bad.

how about you answer this: why are people here so obsessed with race? like all these threads on racism...do you try to post the same thoughts on redneck forums where you're likely to find a bigot and maybe change their mind? are you fighting racism where it matters? or are you reinforcing your beliefs? if so- why the need to constantly keep propping them up? perhaps they are flimsy in their construction? not quite made of what you thought they were?

anyhow...that should give chunks enough questions to pick apart if he's bored.

if you don't understand my point, Adam...well...you're not alone.

you forget just how outside the box and radical i am, man.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ZEZOZE

well maybe he thinks they're superior, just treated unjustly.

Maybe he thinks that! I mean, there's absolutely no justification for that supposition in what he wrote, but you never know! Maybe he thinks that the prisons are run by organ harvesting aliens from Dimension X who prefer the taste of black men's delicious kidneys! Could be!

Since you've begun speculating as to things Ari might believe, but did not say, shall I take this as an admission that you realize nothing Ari posted actually demonstrates "[t]he belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races"?

you seem to think i'm saying something bad.

I think you're saying something ignorant and self-congratulatory. I guess that might be construed as "bad".

how about you answer this: why are people here so obsessed with race?

That's an easy answer. No one here, that I am aware of, is "obsessed" with race. Many people here are aware of the existence of institutionalized racism, frustrated by its pervasiveness, and willing to consider how various other topics intersect with it (a prime example being this very thread...it makes very little sense to discuss incarceration in the United States without at least acknowledging that black men are incarcerated at grossly disproportionate rates), but none of that constitutes "obsession".

like all these threads on racism...do you try to post the same thoughts on redneck forums where you're likely to find a bigot and maybe change their mind? are you fighting racism where it matters? or are you reinforcing your beliefs? if so- why the need to constantly keep propping them up? perhaps they are flimsy in their construction? not quite made of what you thought they were?

Honestly? As a white dude, I find it very helpful to be reminded that my perspective is not an objectively privileged one, and that when I form opinions about various policies or programs that might be enacted, I need to consider their impact on people who are not just like me.

[ZEZOZE]

Originally Posted by Adam

Honestly? As a white dude, I find it very helpful to be reminded that my perspective is not an objectively privileged one, and that when I form opinions about various policies or programs that might be enacted, I need to consider their impact on people who are not just like me.

exactly.

oh and i'm not sure if you're being defensive, but i'm at least trying to point out something i see in all of us. the finger i'm pointing points right back at me, man...the mirror, man...the mirror....

but seriously- i'm down with your above quote.

[chunksmediocrites]

Originally Posted by ZEZOZE

well maybe he thinks they're superior, just treated unjustly.

Or maybe he doesn't neatly fall into your blanket statement that he's racist for bringing up the rate of incarceration for black men?

Originally Posted by ZEZOZE

why are people here so obsessed with race?

It's not clear as to how this is measured. Ratio of number of posts mentioning race to total posts? What level of mention of race is healthy or normal, compared to obsessive?

Originally Posted by ZEZOZE

do you try to post the same thoughts on redneck forums where you're likely to find a bigot and maybe change their mind? are you fighting racism where it matters?

Discussing race or racism on any forum, whatever their demographic, is not particularly "fighting" racism. Discussing race with people who hold racist viewpoints is tricky and often the way the information is couched matters very strongly to overcome source and confirmation bias, and the tendency for many people is to retreat further into entrenched beliefs when challenged. Whether or not one fights racism in whatever form has of course zero to do with their ability to discuss race where they choose, including here.

Originally Posted by ZEZOZE

or are you reinforcing your beliefs?

If one's beliefs are static, and the purpose of the interaction is to ignore all other contradictory credible evidence. I don't see that happening here on the most part, though there are exceptions- you among them.

Originally Posted by ZEZOZE

if so- why the need to constantly keep propping them up? perhaps they are flimsy in their construction? not quite made of what you thought they were?

Perhaps this explains your mission to point out how racist people are here for discussing race. And just so we're clear on what qualifies:

You clearly implying that KFC is in the West Indes because black people love fried chicken: not racist. You're just, like, stating fact.

Ari stating that part of the high incarceration rate of men in the US has to do with the Drug War, and further stating that the Drug War disproportionally targets black men for incarceration: racist.

But then you already have nifty views regarding lots of things, including minority groups of all types:

Originally Posted by ZEZOZE

...i do not believe minorities should stick together. i don't think there should be minorities at all. celebrating that role keeps you there and you will never get what you want because people are quite willing to treat you that way for their own sense of comfort and attitude.

Wherein you conclude self-identifying as a member of a minority grouping means you victimize yourself. Q:"Why was Kelly discriminated against / beaten/ killed?" A:"It is really Kelly's own fault for self-identifying as [pick a minority grouping]."

Originally Posted by ZEZOZE

anyhow...that should give chunks enough questions to pick apart if he's bored.

Well past bored, that's why I mostly just breeze past your posts. Now I only bang my head against your wall of shallow thought for that rare nostalgia. Remember when I thought ITSOZAZ could learn or grow?

[ZEZOZE]

Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites

Remember when I thought ITSOZAZ could learn or grow?

now he ain't nothing but an ignorant ZEZOZE.


oh...and i'm not disagreeing with the statistics or even why at the surface you think you're doing what you're doing, i just think there is something deeper motivating it and most people don't see it. it could be i'm just delusional with a brain made of swiss cheese, but i'm also obnoxious and self-righteous and feel the world is better served by my advice. i guess what makes me not crazy is that i don't actually think i'll change your mind. as has been suggested to me- i'm just putting it out there to solidify my own beliefs. and in my crazy brain they are holding fast no matter what you throw at them.

i sold my bike, btw.

[chunksmediocrites]

Originally Posted by ZEZOZE

...feel the world is better served by my advice.

Yeah buddy. Your advice is so good it has its own thread.

[Ensign Steve]

Originally Posted by Ari

Of course if you want to get to the question of why the female incarceration rate is so extremely low, I would argue it's in part because many women are being punished through other means than the criminal justice system combined with the fact that historically female incarceration happens through other means such as mental hospitals or their own homes.

Yeah, I was thinking that. In a man's world, men commit crimes against other men (or their property, such as women) and get sent to prison for it. Women who transgress get handled by the men responsible for them, if available, before being thrown into the system at large.

[Sauron]

Originally Posted by Ari

Of course if you want to get to the question of why the female incarceration rate is so extremely low, I would argue it's in part because many women are being punished through other means than the criminal justice system combined with the fact that historically female incarceration happens through other means such as mental hospitals or their own homes.

Hence my question:

"Besides, what makes you think that the only form of prison or forced obedience is formal incarceration? "

Ever been stuck in a hopeless, abusive, controlling relationship? There are things that approximate prison so closely that they are indistinguishable.

[Anastasia Beaverhausen]

Dude, you're whining about acknowledging privilege and proclaiming us the racists for acknowledging the issues of the treatment of women and peopke of color. That is actually the opposite of "radical." You're giving vocal support to the kyriarchy which keeps white men in power.

You know what is radical? Fighting it.

[ZEZOZE]

Originally Posted by Anastasia Beaverhausen

Dude, you're whining about acknowledging privilege and proclaiming us the racists for acknowledging the issues of the treatment of women and peopke of color. That is actually the opposite of "radical." You're giving vocal support to the kyriarchy which keeps white men in power.

You know what is radical? Fighting it.

fighting it, sure thing! but this isn't that. i'm just questioning why people here are so obsessed with racism. i understand the need to get rid of bigotry, but how is that happening here? most of the people here think the same in regard to racism. i would like to meet the racist person who stumbled into this forum and started reading about racism and inequality and suddenly had a great epiphany and went back to the their klan meeting the next day telling everybody about a great forum they had found that would change them for the better. i would like to meet this person.

i just think there is a deeper truth to the attraction of the topic. maybe i am wrong? so be it. i don't escape my own hypothesis and i'm guilty of it as much as the next guy. it seems to me that we have come to see difference as something that shouldn't be celebrated, but whitewashed. certain people turn the difference they see into a commonality they can fight for. they are like those old misogynist romeo-rapist stories, where the woman isn't really all that bummed out and glad for the experience.

i just find that all this defending that is part of your personality requires a victim to work, even if it's one you feel sorry for. i happen to think we are all racist. what makes that word sinister is the application. we should all be treated equally and afforded the same rights. bigotry is not cool. pride is not cool. i treat people as they treat me. i'm all cool with a global world united where we all hold hands and sing kumbaya.

and if somebody spins this (chunks) into me being some cross-burning bigot, you are a cocksucker. i'm a good catholic boy following the path of jesus. i will conquer you regardless of your skin colour. it's all the same to me

[Ari]

Originally Posted by ZEZOZE

i'm just questioning why people here are so obsessed with racism.

Cause it's a serious issue with real consequences when ignored.
'post-racial' America has a slave class due to people treating racism as if it's some rare occurrence that happens in far away lands.

Originally Posted by ZEZOZE

i understand the need to get rid of bigotry, but how is that happening here? most of the people here think the same in regard to racism.

Not every mention of racism is an attempt to fix that racism, sometimes it's important to acknowledge said racism as a reminder that it exists so that perhaps when we can actually do something about it it will more quickly bubble to the surface as something that needs to be fixed. Modern racism has built itself around the idea that it's not really racism, hiding in code words and wars on things that aren't immediately seen as race and it's important to say and he doesn't buy it.

Just look at the War on Drugs, tons of people who don't see themselves as racist support the war on drugs, even more think crack is an extremely dangerous substance that causes weak or malformed babies and those who take it should be jailed but you should know by now it's actually a war on race and crack is code for 'black', but saying 'danger drugs' instead of 'danger blacks' makes it more appealing to the masses and easier for the real racists to operate freely under their noses.

Repeating something over and over makes people more aware of it, the media has learned this technique well as it drums up fear of rare events with 24-7 news coverage that make it appear these events are all too common. Racism isn't rare and it's important to give it the coverage it deserves.

[Hermit]

Originally Posted by ZEZOZE

i'm a good catholic boy following the path of jesus.

So sorry. Do you know there's a cure for that?