Violence Over a Bumper Sticker

[Dingfod]

Hypocracy bothers me. I don't know why. It bothers me when you, TJL, show yours when you defend freedom of speech by wanting others to restrict theirs. I stay out of it, but it still bothers me. A weakness? Perhaps. If so, a human frailty.

[The Jesus Lawyer]

you lie dingfod...how am i restricting your freedom of speech? do what you want...i am just commenting on it. i never asked anybody to stop doing anything...

it bother me too, dingfod...

[Dingfod]

Not here in this thread, but you have. Just ask D. Scarlatti.

[The Jesus Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Dingfod

Not here in this thread, but you have. Just ask D. Scarlatti.

LOL

[Shelli]

Originally Posted by The Jesus Lawyer

haha...you must play baseball cuz you're certainly a dodger

Actually, I excelled at softball. We even won the championship.

Anyway, dodge or not, what I said is true.

[The Jesus Lawyer]

so be honest, Shelli...

your Darwin fish has nothing to do with getting a dig in at Christians?

why do you want people to know you believe in evolution?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by The Jesus Lawyer

placing a sticker on your car that expresses part of your philosophy is defining yourself, as was your choice of car.

OK, we apparently have different ideas of what it means to define one's self. Do you think that it's possible to express an opinion without definining one's self?

you said the sticker was humorous...who finds it funny?

I do. It cracked me up when I first encountered the symbol, on a t shirt in the giftshop at Walden Pond in the mid 90's.

[viscousmemories]

TJL, I think what Dingfod was getting at is that it seems pretty contradictory for an ardent free speech advocate to so feverishly oppose people expressing their views - even religious/political views - with car ornaments, and I agree. Why shouldn't they?

[viscousmemories]

Originally Posted by Adam

I do. It cracked me up when I first encountered the symbol, on a t shirt in the giftshop at Walden Pond in the mid 90's.

I don't remember where I first saw it, but I remember thinking it was hilarious too.

[The Jesus Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Adam

OK, we apparently have different ideas of what it means to define one's self. Do you think that it's possible to express an opinion without definining one's self?

only if you're doing a favour and expressing somebody else's opinion...otherwise...no.

michael

[Shelli]

Originally Posted by The Jesus Lawyer

so be honest, Shelli...

your Darwin fish has nothing to do with getting a dig in at Christians?

why do you want people to know you believe in evolution?

Why do they want people to know that they don't?

[The Jesus Lawyer]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

TJL, I think what Dingfod was getting at is that it seems pretty contradictory for an ardent free speech advocate to so feverishly oppose people expressing their views - even religious/political views - with car ornaments, and I agree. Why shouldn't they?

why should they? i am just stating an opinion. FREE SPEECH

the irritation with me isn't about free speech here...

michael

[viscousmemories]

Originally Posted by Shelli

Why do they want people to know that they don't?

Actually professing belief in Christianity doesn't imply lack of belief in evolution.

[The Jesus Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Shelli

Why do they want people to know that they don't?

i don't know...pretty lame on all accounts as i already said. to each their own, like my opinion.

let me ask you...what benefit is there to putting a fish on your car, christian or not?

[The Jesus Lawyer]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

Actually professing belief in Christianity doesn't imply lack of belief in evolution.

true...i was going to mention that also...

[viscousmemories]

Originally Posted by The Jesus Lawyer

why should they?

You answered your own question:

[They're] just stating an opinion. FREE SPEECH

[Adam]

Originally Posted by The Jesus Lawyer

why do you want people to know you believe in evolution?

I've answered this particular question for you before (and I know this was directed at Shelli, not me, but since you appear to be unable to comprehend why someone would want to advertise their affinity for science...), but I'm too lazy to dig it up, so...

There are several reasons that I, personally, wish to advertise my acceptance of biological science over magical religious non-explanations:

1) Science education is under assault in the country I live in. I like to think that I'm, in some small way, contriibuting to a sort of viral marketing of the idea that science education is something worth preserving.

2) I enjoy it when science-lovin' women smile at me and tell me they like my t shirt or my chrome fishie. Yes, this happens periodically, most recently at the theater when I went to see Snakes on a Plane.

As far as the symbol being a 'dig' at Christians, it's only a 'dig' at people who interpret their religious beliefs as being opposed to science education. If individual Christians or Christian sects wish to 'define themselves' into that category, more power to them.

[The Jesus Lawyer]

so it is a competition as to who is better. thanks for answering

[Adam]

Originally Posted by The Jesus Lawyer

let me ask you...what benefit is there to putting a fish on your car, christian or not?

The Christians probably want to be a part of viral religious markeintg, or meet hot Christians.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by The Jesus Lawyer

so it is a competition as to who is better. thanks for answering

Did you read what I wrote?

[The Jesus Lawyer]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

You answered your own question:

yes i know

[The Jesus Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Adam

Did you read what I wrote?

yep...it was this i addressed quickly on the first skim:

"There are several reasons that I, personally, wish to advertise my acceptance of biological science over magical religious non-explanations:"

[viscousmemories]

Originally Posted by The Jesus Lawyer

yes i know

So why did you ask?

[Artemis Entreri]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

...and a "Pro-Choice" or "Pro-Life" bumper sticker is going to be offensive to anyone who thinks legalized abortion is government sponsored genocide or that abortion should be legal (respectively), regardless of the shape, size, color or text. If your goal is to never offend anyone, your best bet is to live in a cave.

I know what your saying but the point is that the darwin fish is, in it's design, meant to jab at christians. I was saying that if someone really only wanted to show that they believe in Evolution without taking a direct jab at christians, then they should have a unique symbol for evolution. Hell, it could still be a fish with legs but does it have to be the same fish shape as the "jesus fish"? It seems to me that the darwin fish is more anti-christian than pro-evolution. Really, it does seem that the evolution and, on a bigger scale, scientific thought should have thier own symbols. Is there one that I don't know about?

[The Jesus Lawyer]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

So why did you ask?

i think i was being facetious, but i'm losing track now