The Great Experiment

[ManM]

Watser,
This is getting tedious, and here is an example why:

Originally Posted by Watser?

I quoted it to point out that even someone in the Israeli cabinet has not even seen any real plan to withdraw and that nobody is even considering leaving the Jordan valley. You claimed that “the departure plan is such an important shift. Rather than forcing out the inhabitants, they are backing off and giving control to the PA.” I was pointing out that was total bullshit. Read this 3 times if it helps, I doubt it will...

Somehow, you think the lack of a unilateral withdrawal plan for the West Bank contradicts my claim that the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza represented an important shift away from the idea that all of the land belongs to Israel. I could explain how I was responding to your comment, “They want the land, not the inhabitants.”, but I doubt it would make any difference. After learning that you haven't paid much attention to my actual position during our previous discussions, I don't see much of a point.

[Watser?]

Originally Posted by ManM

Watser,
This is getting tedious, and here is an example why:

Somehow, you think the lack of a unilateral withdrawal plan for the West Bank contradicts my claim that the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza represented an important shift away from the idea that all of the land belongs to Israel. I could explain how I was responding to your comment, “They want the land, not the inhabitants.”, but I doubt it would make any difference. After learning that you haven't paid much attention to my actual position during our previous discussions, I don't see much of a point.

Considering the fact that I must have told you at least 4 or 5 times by now that there never was an end to the occupation of Gaza (which is the position of the UN too) and that they therefore did not hand control to the PA (and even refused to coordinate their withdrawal with them until forced to by the US), I would say that this discussion is indeed not going anywhere. Gaza does not mean anything, Israel has never been interested in Gaza much, it is not Holy Land, there are no sacred sites. In fact it is a pretty good example of how they want the land and not the inhabitants. Gaza has a lot of inhabitants and very little land of any value. If you took the expression “They want the land, not the inhabitants” literally to mean they want to keep all the land, then you have not been reading my posts very well.
There is no way the Israelis are gonna leave the West Bank in any way to make a viable Palestinian state possible, unless the world forces them to. Therefore I think we in the EU should start a boycott of Israel ASAP until they get serious about dismantling settlements and thereby prove they do NOT want the land. Considering the boycott they slapped on the Palestinians for not recognizing Israel's 'right to exist', I think it is extremely hypocritical of them to allow the Israelis to get away with this land grab. I think the US should boycott them too of course, but let's be honest: there is no way the US is ever gonna get their balls out of the grip of AIPAC.
As for your position that “the UN should grow some balls”, that is either incredibly naive or disingenuous. There is no way in hell the US is gonna allow the UN to do anything constructive, considering their history of vetoing anything that constitutes even the slightest criticism of Israel. Waiting for the UN to grow balls is tantamount to saying I want hell to freeze over.