The case of Bradley Manning.

[The Man]

Daily Beast Publishes Piece Suggesting Prison Is Pretty Great For Transgender People | Blog | Media Matters for America

This Daily Beast piece may set an all-time record for stupid. It ranks pretty high on the horrible scale as well.

Given recent developments, can an admin please change "Bradley" in the thread title to "Chelsea"?

[S.Vashti]

What's wrong with calling her Chelsea from this point forward? That is, why backtrack? What is the moral reasoning behind that.

[The Man]

The thread title won't be accurate going forward, and it'll be pretty bizarre to have a zombie thread going forward with the wrong name and gender in the title. On the other hand, starting a new thread would also be pretty weird.

[S.Vashti]

Ah, thank you. Maybe "The case of Bradley Manning/Chelsea Manning." then? Because that would help searches.

I originally misread you to be asking that the admins here change the title and name throughout the thread to Chelsea, and thought that was a task that was unnecessary, difficult, and slightly dishonest (It would appear to give us knowledge we didn't have at the time). It's good to call her Chelsea henceforth, and I would object to it not being done.

[Angakuk]

No doubt the Marine guards at the brig in Quantico knew all about this. It certainly explains why they took her clothes away.

[The Man]

CNN guest jokes Chelsea Manning will get ‘good practice’ being a woman in prison – LGBTQ Nation

I'm pretty sure if I wrote anything else it would just turn into an incoherent string of obscenities. I can't even manage a coherent string of obscenities right now.

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence - New York Times

[Clutch Munny]

Eep, this dead-naming thread title does grate.

Would it be a vexation to change it?

ETA: Can give arguments if needed, including possibly some reasonable ones.

[Ari]

I agree with the mouse.

[Jerome]

... and the dumb liberals are arguing about gender politics whilst the real issues are ignored.

You people are so easily manipulated.

[Jerome]

So why does Manning go free, and nothing for Assange, nor Snowden?

[erimir]

What charges have been pressed against Assange by the US government?

He's currently hiding from the Swedish government.

Obama gave some explanation of the differences between Manning and Snowden's cases. Maybe read some news and get back to us.

Also, Manning spent years in prison, she didn't get off free in the first place.

[Ari]

Originally Posted by Jerome

So why does Manning go free, and nothing for Assange, nor Snowden?

Turns out you need to be convicted to be pardoned. Strange I know.

[Stormlight]

Apart from the fact that Assange is being wanted for questioning over rape charges in Sweden. What does Obama have to do with that?

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

Originally Posted by Stormlight

What does Obama have to do with that?

It's where the n-bomb in threes comes it. Whether he types it out or not, it's what sounds off in his head somewhere between reptile aliens and chem trails.

[specious_reasons]

Originally Posted by Ari

Turns out you need to be convicted to be pardoned. Strange I know.

Not really, the most famous example was Ford pardoning Nixon. That doesn't help Assange, because the President can't pardon someone on behalf of another country.

Snowden could be pardoned, but that seems less likely, especially considering Obama didn't pardon Manning.

[Ensign Steve]

Originally Posted by Jerome

So why does Manning go free, and nothing for Assange, nor Snowden?

Wow, it's almost like the White House answered that exact question.

Asked about the two clemency applications on Friday, the White House spokesman, Josh Earnest, discussed the “pretty stark difference” between Ms. Manning’s case for mercy and Mr. Snowden’s. While their offenses were similar, he said, there were “some important differences.”

“Chelsea Manning is somebody who went through the military criminal justice process, was exposed to due process, was found guilty, was sentenced for her crimes, and she acknowledged wrongdoing,” he said. “Mr. Snowden fled into the arms of an adversary and has sought refuge in a country that most recently made a concerted effort to undermine confidence in our democracy.”

Chelsea Manning to Be Released Early as Obama Commutes Sentence - The New York Times

[erimir]

Personally I think that

1. Snowden should probably face some consequences for his actions
2. Nonetheless, Manning's mistreatment provides strong justification for his decision to flee
3. I'm not sure how to resolve those two. He seems justified in staying in Russia for the moment, but if the US gov't gave certain assurances about his treatment I could change my mind about that.

Assange's status is not particularly similar as he never worked for the US government, never had a security clearance, and is not even a US citizen, etc. so if he were charged with any crimes, I think they would be under totally different statutes. I'm not sure that anything he's done would even be considered criminal in the US (most of it could be defended under freedom of the press, I think). Even if he were closely collaborating with Putin, I'm not sure what the law on that would be. Maybe he could be considered an accessory or part of a conspiracy with regards to the hacking of US gov't officials and citizens in that case.

ETA: I'm not sure what will happen with Snowden though. #3 seems unlikely to happen with Trump (a full pardon seems more likely than restraint, which is not a Trumpian quality). Republicans in general do not have a good opinion of Snowden, and unlike Assange he didn't work on their behalf (aside from purity pony encouragement of third-party voting), so other Republicans don't have much motivation to be nice to him.

Trump's stance towards Russia could help Snowden, I suppose. "If Putin likes him, he's alright with me!" On the other hand, it could instead lead to Putin handing Snowden over to the US as part of their budding friendship. It's fairly cost-free to Putin, and it seems that if Putin never does anything for the US, Trump and Putin's relationship would appear suspiciously one-sided.

[The Man]

I would probably be fine giving Snowden a certain amount of clemency providing that he was debriefed and determined not to have been turned. He’s been in Russia for a long time now, so that’s quite possible. I’m also not certain that I would be okay with the FBI doing the debriefing, because I don’t exactly have the utmost faith in them these days either after the events of the last year. I can’t even say I’m not certain they haven’t been turned. It’s weird seeing Russian conspiracies everywhere. That was supposed to be the far right’s domain.

I don’t, to be clear, think Snowden deserves a complete pardon. I’d be fine saying he should get a sentence of a year or two, for example, but I wouldn’t be ok with the use of solitary confinement as was done to Manning, which I regard as little different from outright torture. (I don’t think Manning deserved to be given no sentence, either, to be clear; her sentence was excessive and a gross violation of human rights, particularly due to the absurd amount of solitary confinement to which she was subjected, and if she’d simply leaked the Collateral Murder video I wouldn’t have been in favour of sentencing her at all, but she did leak a giant number of classified diplomatic cables containing no evidence of similar wrongdoing, and I wouldn’t be comfortable with leaving that unpunished. To be fair, though, her sentence should not have been more excessive than that of David Petraeus, who cannot be considered to have had motives as pure as Manning’s were for her leak, and I also think Manning’s sentence should also have been reduced due to the horrific psychological state she was in at the time, which should have been considered a mitigating circumstance.)

Also, Assange isn’t accepting Obama’s commutation of Manning’s sentence, despite the fact that Wikileaks’ tweet specifically asked for “clemency” for Manning and commutation is a form of clemency. Quelle surprise.

Finally, I should also note that I requested to have the thread renamed over three years ago because of the deadnaming issue, but I assume the admins just haven’t seen the request.

[godfry n. glad]

Jim Wright, over at Stonekettle Station, has some pithy remarks on the clemency granted.

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

Jim Wright, over at Stonekettle Station, has some pithy remarks on the clemency granted.

That's a pretty great blog, there.

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by erimir

Obama gave some explanation of the differences between Manning and Snowden's cases. Maybe read some news and get back to us.

At his press conference yesterday he just said it was different, not how it was different.

Maybe you should listen to what the President says, then get back to us.

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by Ari

Turns out you need to be convicted to be pardoned. Strange I know.

Wow, lots of thanks for being completely wrong.

[Vivisectus]

Oh I do so look forward to your legal opinions, Jerome.

[Stormlight]