Presedential Debate, Round II: This time, it's personal!!

[Beth]

Politics is usually a very hot subject in my house. I should not have written what I did but I was so upset and went from a leisure drink to excessive amounts. It really was inexcusable, I've tried not to do this anymore and I fell back into an old behavior. So I feel very disappointed with myself. The rape was not recent, it happened when I was 16 or 17( As time goes on, the details get fuzzier and fuzzier to me.), anyway, I did not tell my husband about it till my 20's and then I did in a confession. I suppose he is still upset a little about it.

[HelenM]

Originally Posted by Beth

Politics is usually a very hot subject in my house. I should not have written what I did but I was so upset and went from a leisure drink to excessive amounts. It really was inexcusable, I've tried not to do this anymore and I fell back into an old behavior. So I feel very disappointed with myself. The rape was not recent, it happened when I was 16 or 17( As time goes on, the details get fuzzier and fuzzier to me.), anyway, I did not tell my husband about it till my 20's and then I did in a confession. I suppose he is still upset a little about it.

He may be, but bear in mind that people often say things when upset that they don't really mean.

Try not to beat yourself up because you drank more than you intended to last night.

And hopefully your husband, in calmer moments, will continue to be as supportive as usual.

Helen

[HelenM]

Question: Mr. President, my mother and sister traveled abroad this summer, and when they got back they talked to us about how shocked they were at the intensity of aggravation that other countries had with how we handled the Iraq situation.

Diplomacy is obviously something that we really have to really work on.

What is your plan to repair relations with other countries given the current situation?

BUSH: No, I appreciate that. I -- listen, I -- we've got a great country. I love our values. And I recognize I've made some decisions that have caused people to not understand the great values of our country.

I remember when Ronald Reagan was the president; he stood on principle. Somebody called that stubborn. He stood on principle standing up to the Soviet Union, and we won that conflict. Yet at the same time, he was very -- we were very unpopular in Europe because of the decisions he made. I recognize that taking Saddam Hussein out was unpopular. But I made the decision because I thought it was in the right interests of our security.

You know, I've made some decisions on Israel that's unpopular. I wouldn't deal with Arafat, because I felt like he had let the former president down, and I don't think he's the kind of person that can lead toward a Palestinian state.

And people in Europe didn't like that decision. And that was unpopular, but it was the right thing to do.

I believe Palestinians ought to have a state, but I know they need leadership that's committed to a democracy and freedom, leadership that would be willing to reject terrorism.

I made a decision not to join the International Criminal Court in The Hague, which is where our troops could be brought to -- brought in front of a judge, an unaccounted judge.

I don't think we ought to join that. That was unpopular.

And so, what I'm telling you is, is that sometimes in this world you make unpopular decisions because you think they're right.

We'll continue to reach out.

Listen, there is 30 nations involved in Iraq, some 40 nations involved in Afghanistan.

People love America. Sometimes they don't like the decisions made by America, but I don't think you want a president who tries to become popular and does the wrong thing.

You don't want to join the International Criminal Court just because it's popular in certain capitals in Europe.

Way to go showing why GW really has to work on diplomacy. *sigh*

Helen

[livius drusus]

A blow by blow of the debates courtesy of Joyce McGreevy at Salon. It requires membership or advertisement/day pass, but it's so, so worth it.

Woman tells Bush, speaking of getting all pissy, my mother and sister caught holy crap during their overseas summer vacation because YOU just had to invade Iraq. Bush jeers, Well, I hate that poncho, so now we're even. Adds: Don't worry, they're just a bunch of dumb foreigners who don't understand my plan. Kerry says there is no plan. Bush says, 'member I was sittin' in the office, the oval one, lookin' at generals? Well, then I went down to the basement, where there was more generals, and I looked at every darn one of 'em. That's what a president does.

Sadly enough, that's pretty much a balls-on accurate description of that exchange. Bush has made satire redundant.

[pescifish]

A coworker had the debate streaming off some Internet radio station while I was frantically trying to get some work done. I didn't see it on tv, so I'm still confused about one thing.

So, did Bush have wood, or not?

[livius drusus]

Ewwwwww!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by seebs

Y'know, it took me years to realize what it is that makes me so angry when people call abortion "murder".

Murder is intentional killing with malice aforethought of a human being.

If you think that what you're killing is, for whatever reason, "not human", then you're not murdering. You may be killing, and you may even be wrong, and be killing a person, but it cannot be murder unless you know it.

Wow. I've never heard it put quite like that before. Amazingly well said.