Mafia - Game III

[slimshady2357]

Originally Posted by Joshua Adams

I'd bet the farm that MonCap is a townie. He has been sticking on Leesifer's back for the entire game, rather than sowing lies and doubt all over as a mafioso would. Now that I've gone back and checked, NC Kev doesn't look as definitely innocent as I thought. Most of that feeling was based on his offer to be the sacrificial lamb, but in retrospect, how seriously likely was it that he would wind up lynched? There were probably not enough people impatient enough to go ahead and off him, since they'd rather try for a mafia. It could have been a ploy with relatively little risk, that gained him the trust of everyone. Unfortunately I did a stupid thing and voted for him, and then capp followed suit; that is as far as the bandwagon got, however. Since capp voted for him, I am not sure what that tells us. Was he going to bail, or is NC Kev really a townie?

Interesting, because I agree on a couple of things, but for different reasons.

I too think MonCap is a townie, but because of him voting for himself on Day 1 and leaving himself only one vote from a lynch. A scum would know that none of the other scum would throw the final vote (including the traitor), which is three people. But MonCap had 7 votes and at the time and we had 15 people total. Even if none of the scum were already voting for MonCap, that leaves 5 townies that could have finished him off. And the way some people just like to get day 1 over with, there was a very good chance it could have happened. I don't think a scum would have put themselves at such risk.

And I also have been re-evaluating my view of NcKev, as can be seen above. I too thought the sacrificial lamb play was a good marker that he was townie, but then I started to wonder. His voting pattern is suspicious, I think. And his rather eager approach to lynching/voting is suspicious too, in my opinion.

I'm keeping my vote there for now, partly to see what other people say.

[slimshady2357]

Originally Posted by Ensign Steve

Oh, and also I just remembered something! One of the things that made me suspicious of Sock was on Day 1 he did a Foghorn Leghorn smiley with a balloon that said "That's a joke, son" but the thing he was referring to totally did not read as a joke. Sock usually totally cracks me up, so I doubt he would make such an unobvious joke. Unfortunately I'm running too late to dig up the post right now to quote it. But it's there, I promise.

Here is the exchange you were talking about:

Originally Posted by Nightson

He's a good player is not a valid reason to lynch someone.

It was in response to Nightson that Sock used the "It was a joke son" with the Foghorn Leghorn smilie.

I don't know, it seems like a joke to me. He's joking about having good reason to vote for bey since bey has brutally and painfully killed him twice.

[Kevlar]

slim, you're chasing ghosts, or your scum. Just because somebody isn't the first person to vote, you're not necessarily jumping on a bandwagon. Plus, your leaving out the times I was the first to put someone out there.

Now, I can't go into real details of why I picked Mon, as it would clue in the others who I suspect. As a matter of fact, if I'm wrong about Mon, then tomorrow I will pray for our god to strike me dead, the same way that our previous god struck down bey.

And as to your issue about me rushing the vote. I've only tried to hurry things along when a day starts dragging too long. It's not to the town's benefit, but if you are scum then I guess that's why you have been throwing up so much smoke.

I sense I've touched a nerve with a few people when I voted for MonCap.

[slimshady2357]

Originally Posted by NC Kev

slim, you're chasing ghosts, or your scum. Just because somebody isn't the first person to vote, you're not necessarily jumping on a bandwagon. Plus, your leaving out the times I was the first to put someone out there.

Now, I can't go into real details of why I picked Mon, as it would clue in the others who I suspect. As a matter of fact, if I'm wrong about Mon, then tomorrow I will pray for our god to strike me dead, the same way that our previous god struck down bey.

And as to your issue about me rushing the vote. I've only tried to hurry things along when a day starts dragging too long. It's not to the town's benefit, but if you are scum then I guess that's why you have been throwing up so much smoke.

I sense I've touched a nerve with a few people when I voted for MonCap.

You didn't touch a nerve, you raised suspicion. The ol' "I know something but I can't tell you, just trust me *wink wink*" doesn't cut it. The town can't afford people claming up and just voting. If you suspect someone, let us know why. We need to make out own assessments of your reasoning. Especially if you expect anyone to vote with you.

[Joshua Adams]

I don't get why you can't share your reasons. I've maintained MonCap's innocence since he voted for himself. I don't feel like digging it up, but I commented that "I can't vote for him" since I so strongly suspected he was town. And then cappuccino chewed me out for dragging the game, yadda yadda.

Also, please don't modkill yourself. We need every warm body we can get. Especially if we are wrong on the lynch. I am pretty sure that, if we lose four townies today, and then you modkill, the mafia wins (Assuming you are a townie).

[Kevlar]

I don't think I've see anyone clammer more about a vote.

So what if I'm voting for Mon, just call me quirky. If you don't want to vote for him, fine.
Go ahead and lead a charge against me, if I get hung tonight, the townies will be after you tomorrow.

[Adam]

This is officially the weirdest game of Mafia ever (or, to put it in perspective, the weirdest of the three I've played )

Kev, no one's clamoring about your vote, we're just curious as to why you'd vote MonCap out of the blue without having previously expressed suspicions, and without explaining yourself. And this explanation doesnt't make any sense:

...as it would clue in the others who I suspect.

Why would it matter if people knew your suspicions? At this point in the game, we all need to know each others' suspicions and reasoning. The only secret you might legitimately want to keep is if you had a good townie role, but the only good role left is the vigilante, and this doesn't make sense as a vigilante play. The best vig play would be to lie low, avoid the watchful eye of the mob, and knock Julie off tonight, not draw attention to yourself with strange moves.

[livius drusus]

Current Tally - 6 Votes needed to Lynch

PlayerX {voted for} PlayerY

Ensign Steve Sock Puppet
Julie Leesifer
Leesifer Julie
NC Kev MonCapitan2002
Sock Puppet Leesifer
balluga Sock Puppet
MonCapitan2002 Leesifer
slimshady2357 NC Kev
Joshua Adams
Adam
trillian Sock Puppet

Spenser (townie) -mod killed, day 1
beyelzu (townie) - mod killed, day 1
Nightson (townie) - lynched, day 1
godfry n. glad (doctor) - murdered, night 1
cappuccino (mafia) - lynched, day 2
TomJoe (cop) - murdered, night 2


Total votes for:

Sock Puppet - 3
Leesifer - 3
Julie - 1
MonCapitan2002 - 1
NC Kev - 1

[Kevlar]

Originally Posted by Joshua Adams

I don't get why you can't share your reasons. I've maintained MonCap's innocence since he voted for himself. I don't feel like digging it up, but I commented that "I can't vote for him" since I so strongly suspected he was town. And then cappuccino chewed me out for dragging the game, yadda yadda.

Also, please don't modkill yourself. We need every warm body we can get. Especially if we are wrong on the lynch. I am pretty sure that, if we lose four townies today, and then you modkill, the mafia wins (Assuming you are a townie).

Ok, I'll tell you my reason, and you are on my shit list too. Several of you have been clammering on incessantly, and to me, that's a mob smoke screen. You guys have dissected this thread like a Baptist preacher reading Proverbs, and with much the same results. You can make anyone look suspicious, or not, by digging up endless quotes and votes. And the longer this thread gets, the easier it's going to be for the mafia to use that tactic against the townies. You keep going on... and on... and on... about who and why you think certain people are guilty or not, under the guise of being helpful.

People, they are leading us around like sheep!

[Kevlar]

liv, I could have swore there was a vote for me. Go ahead, Adam, JA, and MonCap... vote for me too dammit!

[livius drusus]

Yup. It was on the right side of the post so I missed it.

[Adam]

So, what's the alternative, Kev? Honest question.

Edit: In my limited experience so far, there seem to be two winning strategies, and the town needs to emply both of them. Careful analysis like the kind JA and slimshady have been doing, and aggressive prod-voting to elicit responses that may contain valuable data.

[Kevlar]

Originally Posted by Adam

So, what's the alternative, Kev? Honest question.

I'm not the only person playing this game, you have many alternatives. Any particular reason you are trying to make it sound so final? It's pretty plain to me that there's not a majority against me... yet.

Edit: Sorry, I thought you meant alternatives to voting for me, but you meant alternative to rambling on endlessly. The alternative is to vote to lynch people. It's a game!!! We could have played 5 games in the time it took to play this one. So go ahead and lynch me!!!

[slimshady2357]

Originally Posted by NC Kev

Ok, I'll tell you my reason, and you are on my shit list too. Several of you have been clammering on incessantly, and to me, that's a mob smoke screen. You guys have dissected this thread like a Baptist preacher reading Proverbs, and with much the same results. You can make anyone look suspicious, or not, by digging up endless quotes and votes. And the longer this thread gets, the easier it's going to be for the mafia to use that tactic against the townies. You keep going on... and on... and on... about who and why you think certain people are guilty or not, under the guise of being helpful.

People, they are leading us around like sheep!

It's strange how different people see and play the game.

I'm enjoying this game, even when the days drag out. I like thinking about why people are voting as they are, looking at the various evidence, weighing it up. And I like to voice my reasonings, so that other people can take a look and comment on them. I want to know if they've seen something that compliments or conradicts my suspicions. I want them to voice their concerns/thoughts/suspicions, so that I can think about things I haven't noticed.

Other people hardly EVER talk about what they are thinking, who they suspect. They just post now and then and mostly just to vote. They want the game to move, move, move and vote accordingly. I find those people suspicious at worst and a not very useful townie at best.

I notice you're also pretty quick to throw around the scum label. But then, so was TJ.

[Kevlar]

slim, I'm not trying to insult you, and if you are really trying to be helpful, then I appreciate the extra work. But, I think most people don't want to commit 6 hours a day for the next month, reading in depth analysis of the game... we want to play!

On the other hand, dominating the thread with accusations and pardons as you guys have done, would be an excellent tactic for the mob.

[Adam]

Well, here's my next question, then: do you actually think MonCap is scum, or are you just trying to move the game along?

For the record, I also enjoy the playstyle slimshady enjoys, aeven when I miss most of a day thanks to work.

[slimshady2357]

Originally Posted by NC Kev

Edit: Sorry, I thought you meant alternatives to voting for me, but you meant alternative to rambling on endlessly. The alternative is to vote to lynch people. It's a game!!! We could have played 5 games in the time it took to play this one. So go ahead and lynch me!!!

Ya, that's pretty much what I was talking about

It's hard to reconcile this attitude with your voting for MonCap, someone who had no votes before yours. You'd think if you were so anxious to get the game over you'd have voted for someone with 3 or 4 votes.

I don't know, seems strange.

[Joshua Adams]

I've heard this spiel before.

Originally Posted by cappuccino

It seems to me that you keep falling into the trap of WIFOM. "Why would Mafia do this?" Why would, why so, why not? Mafia isn't a perfect player, they make mistakes, both experienced and n00bies. It's entirely possible that MonCap committed mistakes given he's new at this.

This really isn't game playing anymore, it's just plain absurd overanalyzing. The point of the game is to have fun. Nobody would fault you for moving the bandwagon along, if we end up killing a townie, so what? It's just a fucking game and there's always more games in the future. The statistics alone guarantee that we'll kill townies along with mafia. There's no way around that. Trying to avoid that by endless talking and posturing isn't going to work and turns the game into a chore.

Discussing things may not guarantee a correct decision, true, and may ultimately not even help very much. But it's absurd to suggest that it hurts our chances, as compared to a poorly considered decision. We're near the end of the game--I don't think we'll see a day 5, and certainly not a day 6. We can't afford to fuck it up and we don't need townies pulling shit like this at the last second to throw us into confusion.

Like slim, I enjoy thinking about these games. It's why I play them. I do not believe it is inherently fun to get to the end of the game, it is the process of analyzing and exercising my brain that makes it worth playing.

[Kevlar]

I don't know how you can say I'm trying to rush things along. When one game day has turned into two real days, then it's time to start moving, and that's the only time I've gotten pushy. As I've said repeatedly (and I wonder why you keep trying to wash it over), it's too dangerous for the townies to wait too long.

The Lees/Julie/sock thing had been in deadlock too long. And let me point out that you guys were the ones jumping from one to the other, and I'm betting that was all just a distraction. Today (game day), I was the first to vote for Lees, and the first to vote for sock, so you can't accuse me of jumping on any bandwagons.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by slimshady2357

It's hard to reconcile this attitude with your voting for MonCap, someone who had no votes before yours. You'd think if you were so anxious to get the game over you'd have voted for someone with 3 or 4 votes.

I don't know, seems strange.

That's what I was digging at with my last question. Unless he has independent suspicions about MonCap, it seems like the best way to move things along would be to vote for Lees or Sock. Even if he does have suspicions about MonCap, it seems like explaining them would be a better way to get enough people to go along with him to cause the lynch. In any case, Kev, you should have known that making what appeared to be a random play was going to lead to yet more back and forth analysis and discussion as we tried to figure out why you made the move you made.

I'd venture as far to say that Kev might be the traitor trying to protect a mobster that's close to lynching, but that's iffy.

The only reason the traitor might want to offer himself up to save the mob at this point might be if both remaining mob were likely to die tonight, to the town and the vig, so IMO Kev as the traitor only makes sense if both Sock and Lees are mob, so I'd say our best bet is not to lynch Kev on suspicion of traitorhood until we've tested either Sock or Lees. If one of them is innocent, Kev is probably not traitorous scum.

At this point, my gut on Kev is 'frustrated townie'.

[Joshua Adams]

The Lees/Julie/sock thing had been in deadlock too long. And let me point out that you guys were the ones jumping from one to the other, and I'm betting that was all just a distraction.

I never voted for Lees or Sock, although I have considered the latter. I unvoted Julie when she claimed.

[Kevlar]

Originally Posted by Joshua Adams

Discussing things may not guarantee a correct decision, true, and may ultimately not even help very much. But it's absurd to suggest that it hurts our chances, as compared to a poorly considered decision. We're near the end of the game--I don't think we'll see a day 5, and certainly not a day 6. We can't afford to fuck it up and we don't need townies pulling shit like this at the last second to throw us into confusion.

Like slim, I enjoy thinking about these games. It's why I play them. I do not believe it is inherently fun to get to the end of the game, it is the process of analyzing and exercising my brain that makes it worth playing.

Pulling shit like this?!? Please!!! You guys have done nothing but confuse the issue. Now you're trying to pin it off on me, for merely voting for one of your family members. Your the one who's been saying to vote your conscience, now that I break away from the pack you accuse me of not falling in line?

[Joshua Adams]

I think Kev is just trying to get a rise out of us so as to gauge our reactions. There, I said it, sorry for fucking up your master plan.

[Kevlar]

Originally Posted by Adam

At this point, my gut on Kev is 'frustrated townie'.

Of course you would know that.

[Joshua Adams]

I don't mind you voting for MonCap; it is the secrecy that makes it look bad. All it does is throw suspicion on you, where it ostensibly doesn't belong.