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  #176  
Old 02-20-2024, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: Standing With Israel and Condemning Hamas

Those using this to run anti-Biden campaigns are either idiots or grifters and have gone down a notch in my opinion.

Campaigning against Biden's policies is one thing, campaigning for aid, for Palestine or even another option besides Biden, all great, but using Palestine to sour people on Biden when the only other option is Trump is either an amazingly dumb, shoot themselves in the foot, moment, or an obvious cash grab to ride the latest anger into some nice cash. But then maybe I'm feeling cynical about this.
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  #177  
Old 02-20-2024, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: Standing With Israel and Condemning Hamas

So what you're saying, vm, is that the continued Israeli attack on Gaza is specifically supported by Russia, in order to make Biden look bad and to help get their shit-filled puppy into the presidency in November?
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  #178  
Old Yesterday, 02:32 PM
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Default Re: Standing With Israel and Condemning Hamas

I disagree, Ari. I have been immersed in the Arab-American community (online anyway) for the past 6-8 weeks and I think anyone with friends and family in Palestine (which is a lot of people in Michigan) understand that there is no significant difference between Democrats and Republicans when it comes to protecting and uplifting their people. I don't think I'm dumb, ignorant, or a grifter and I still believe (today, anyway) that a Republican administration in the US would be a net negative for the world, but the idea that anyone with roots or connections to Palestine would give a single shit about the threats to our democratic way of life in the US posed by Trump while Biden and the Democrats are vetoing ceasefire resolutions and funneling money and arms to support the genocide of their families (as they have been doing continuously since 1948 through Republican and Democratic administrations alike) is just not connected to reality. Yes, rationally speaking it would probably be worse for everyone if Trump were elected. But you might forgive people for not being entirely rational in their calculations when they are watching a live-streamed slaughter and starvation of their entire culture day after day, and the only response from Biden is mumbled "hope" that Netanyahu will slow down the genocide while continuing to dump cash and arms on him. And that assumes that you and I are correct about what the rational choice is in this case, and I'm not sure we are. What specifically do you think Trump would do that would be worse for the Palestinian people than what Biden is doing?
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  #179  
Old Yesterday, 04:26 PM
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I read some of your foolish scree, then just skimmed the rest.
 
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Default Re: Standing With Israel and Condemning Hamas

Yes I'm sure many feel that way but it seems very 'let's move to Russia to escape the woke mob' 'I'm sure the leopards won't eat my face' 'but her e-mails!' I don't blame them for feeling abandoned by the US, but it could be worse.

One side has floated the removal of natural born citizenship, large scale deportation, mosque bans, headscarf bans, we all know one justice that would ban interracial marriage if he could, it's the return to a christian nation and removal of who oppose. They would support a state of Palestine if it meant they could ship all of them back there, as to them they aren't real Americans. The GOP is happy with maximizing the numbers of muslim and jew death so long as it doesn't take away from their pockets or disagrees with the orders of their Russian owners.

But yes, both sides are the same and the best option in this case is a hold their breath till they turn blue style of protest vote, why not, it's not my face the leopards will eat.
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  #180  
Old Yesterday, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: Standing With Israel and Condemning Hamas

Quote:
Originally Posted by viscousmemories View Post
What specifically do you think Trump would do that would be worse for the Palestinian people than what Biden is doing?
Trump has already done it. Moving the embassy to Jerusalem was a big green light to the Israeli far-right, and a huge middle-finger to the Palestinians. Biden would not have done that. And making Jared Kushner a middle east envoy
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  #181  
Old Yesterday, 11:51 PM
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Default Re: Standing With Israel and Condemning Hamas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari View Post
I don't blame them for feeling abandoned by the US
You just called them "either idiots or grifters".

Maybe you can disagree with people who are having their government collude with the genocide of their relatives without being an absolute asshole about them.
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  #182  
Old Today, 12:13 AM
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Default Re: Standing With Israel and Condemning Hamas

This "vote the lesser evil" stuff pisses me off so much. Not because it's wrong, exactly, but because of how much it enragingly leaves out. It lumps most of the moral agency on the people in the worst positions, scolding them to suppress their very understandable outrage because there are worse bastards out there.

Just maybe there's a moral responsibility for Democrat voters to actually join the struggles, listen, understand and work together to build a common movement that actually works towards better. You don't get that by scolding people to vote the lesser evil then wringing your hands and saying "it wasn't my fault" when it doesn't work.

Yes some activists do what I just described. And you know what? I bet people are much more motivated to vote for candidates when they see supporters alongside them in a struggle.
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  #183  
Old Today, 12:21 AM
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I read some of your foolish scree, then just skimmed the rest.
 
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Default Re: Standing With Israel and Condemning Hamas

Quote:
Originally Posted by fragment View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari View Post
I don't blame them for feeling abandoned by the US
You just called them "either idiots or grifters".
Oh sorry, I don't blame Palestinian Americans for feeling abandoned by the US and choosing to vote None of the above because of that feeling.

I'm calling the people in positions of power, who have real access to others in positions of power and largish mouth pieces, who then suggest knee jerk, poisoning the well responses to this feeling of abandonment such as souring people on Biden as an attempt to strong arm the party. It strikes me as a childish response and something done by someone who is either unaware of how bad it could get, or quite aware that big knee jerk, get on Fox news style acts often bring in the cash.
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