Return to Gender 101

[BrotherMan]

I had another take: They think all you have to do is say "I'm a woman now!" and bing bang boom, you can win all the events.

[LarsMac]

I seem to recall that at some point, more than one sport came up with men and women versions of the competitions because the men were worried about being shown up by a woman.

[ShottleBop]

Originally Posted by -FX-

You can also be damn sure the Olympic commitee isn't going to have men competing against women.

Oh? Mixed-gender events: a sign of innovation and greater gender diversity at Tokyo 2020 - Olympic News

[LarsMac]

Originally Posted by ShottleBop

Mixed-gender events: a sign of innovation and greater gender diversity at Tokyo 2020 - Olympic News

It's about time.

[JoeP]

Originally Posted by LarsMac

It's about time.

It's about time fxie started to be honest. But that will take a lot longer. Than his life, probably.

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

I recently learned about "longtermism", which is a philosophy that takes the above very seriously as a moral imperative and is embraced by the likes of Elon Musk. I bought a book that looked interesting called "What We Owe The Future", by William MacAskill that fell more than a few notches in my queue when I learned that it is a longtermist manifesto at the same time I learned about the concept itself.

Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Longtermism

[-FX-]

How many genders are there?

(not in a factual scientific sense, but in the made up fantasy world)

[michio]

Originally Posted by -FX-

How many genders are there?

(not in a factual scientific sense, but in the made up fantasy world)

Gender is a combination of culture and identity and expression. There are no finite numbers of these things, so there are infinite possible genders.

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

When David Bowie died he released billions of them into the world. When Prince died he released billions more.

[ShottleBop]

Originally Posted by -FX-

How many genders are there?

(not in a factual scientific sense, but in the made up fantasy world)

In the made-up fantasy world: two

In the factual scientific sense: many

Source: How Many Genders Are There According to Science: Breaking the Myth

s gonna

[-FX-]

"There are no finite numbers of these things, so there are infinite possible genders."

"In the made-up fantasy world: two"

So we have two people here give completely opposite answers.

I didn't see that coming.

[Ari]

We know Musk is obsessed with Trans issues because one of his many children is trans and he managed to bag the high school manic pixie dream girl only to have her leave him to date a trans woman, combined with Musk’s dream of repopulating a new world with his children and it’s clearly a personal issue he’s decided to make his personality instead of getting help.

At this point I presume anyone who has an unhealthy obsession with trans issues matching that of Musk’s also must have unresolved personal issues like Musk to have chosen ‘hating trans’ as the bedrock foundation of their personality.

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

The mistake fx makes here is in the belief that the parameters he sets around his disingenuous questioning is that in all cases he’s taken seriously.

https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/

[Ensign Steve]

IMG_4884.png

[-FX-]

Originally Posted by michio

There are no finite numbers of these things, so there are infinite possible genders.

That is actually true. When you make something up, there is no end to what you can add, to the other made up things.

[beyelzu]

Indeed, genders are made up as they are socially constructed things so are not limited in number.

It’s funny when you (and I mean you specific) say something that is accidentally true as you attempt to argue stupid shit.

I would say that infinite doesn’t make sense, it’s hard to imagine how a culture could have more genders than say all the people in the culture who have ever lived and died, so I think it’s more appropriate to say that a culture can have an arbitrary number of genders.

[-FX-]

Originally Posted by michio

Gender is a combination of culture and identity and expression. There are no finite numbers of these things, so there are infinite possible genders.

Originally Posted by beyelzu

I would say that infinite doesn’t make sense, it’s hard to imagine how a culture could have more genders than say all the people in the culture who have ever lived and died, so I think it’s more appropriate to say that a culture can have an arbitrary number of genders.

Whatever you make up is fine.

[LarsMac]

I can't say that it has been anything that keeps me awake at night, but, out of curiosity, I decided to see what there is being said about it.


People often use the terms “sex” and “gender” interchangeably, but this is incorrect. Sex refers to biological physical differences, while gender is how people identify.

Interesting write up.

Even I actually learned something.

[beyelzu]

Originally Posted by -FX-

Whatever you make up is fine.

I appreciate your permission for culture to continue to function as it always has.

I didn’t know you were the arbiter of such, but thank you.

[beyelzu]

Originally Posted by LarsMac

I can't say that it has been anything that keeps me awake at night, but, out of curiosity, I decided to see what there is being said about it.


People often use the terms “sex” and “gender” interchangeably, but this is incorrect. Sex refers to biological physical differences, while gender is how people identify.

Interesting write up.

Even I actually learned something.

That is a good primer on sex vs gender.

I think some of the papers it links to are ones that I’ve read.

Return to Gender 101 - Page 261 - Freethought Forum

This is what I wrote a couple years ago on sex vs gender.

I don’t think it says much that isn’t covered by your link.

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

Of course we already knew it was really about eradicating a segment of society: No Longer About Kids: Florida Judge Allows Trans Adult Ban For Large Swaths Of Care

[ShottleBop]

They lied about the "share" button.

[But]

Originally Posted by beyelzu

I would say that infinite doesn’t make sense, it’s hard to imagine how a culture could have more genders than say all the people in the culture who have ever lived and died, so I think it’s more appropriate to say that a culture can have an arbitrary number of genders.

Simple, just add multiple personalities. Or is that a thing already? That would make you a multiphobe. I have trouble keeping up with this shit.

[ShottleBop]

Maybe this attempt to share will work: You Were Supposed to be Different

[erimir]

Originally Posted by beyelzu

Indeed, genders are made up as they are socially constructed things so are not limited in number.

It’s funny when you (and I mean you specific) say something that is accidentally true as you attempt to argue stupid shit.

I would say that infinite doesn’t make sense, it’s hard to imagine how a culture could have more genders than say all the people in the culture who have ever lived and died, so I think it’s more appropriate to say that a culture can have an arbitrary number of genders.

I think there's a limit to how many categories humans can keep track of.

I don't know what it is, but it's not a large number. I'd be surprised to learn of a culture with ten well-defined genders, for example.

However, different cultures can divide things up differently - one culture could have three or four genders, and another could have three or four genders, but they don't overlap completely.

It does seem that the central tendency is for what Americans would call cisgender heterosexual men and cisgender heterosexual women to be in different genders. I know of no culture in which those two groups fall into the same gender. But details beyond that can vary a bit, with some genders in different cultures I've read about corresponding to trans men, trans women, gay men and lesbians. I wouldn't be surprised to hear of traditional cultures that have an agender/bigender category or asexual, etc. But so what? If we admit that male/female are the most basic distinctions it doesn't commit us to saying there are only two genders anymore than admitting that white/light and black/dark are the most basic color distinctions commits us to saying everything is black and white!

So probably the answer would have some similarity to the color naming hierarchy in linguistics: Color term - Wikipedia

There's an underlying color spectrum, but how human languages divide it up varies quite a bit. But there are strong tendencies in how they do so. As far as I know, no human languages make a distinction between orange and red without making a distinction between white and black.

Likewise, as I said, I don't think there are any human societies that don't distinguish cisgender heterosexual women from cisgender heterosexual men.

I don't think there are a truly infinite number of ways humans might divide up the color spectrum, and likewise, I don't think that's the case for gender either.

But the number of color terms in use in all languages is a lot larger than two. It's even a lot larger than the eleven basic terms you'd give for English (white, black, gray, red, yellow, blue, green, orange, purple, brown, pink). There are languages that make the equivalent distinction of pink/red but for blue or green (sometimes referred to as "blink" and "grink" by linguists). There are languages that divide things up quite differently from the English colors.

But in general, trying to define precisely how many genders are possible across cultures, or within a single culture, might be an interesting intellectual exercise, but I'm not sure what the practical consequence should be if the answer were "the maximum in a single culture is eight, and there are twenty-three possible genders" vs. if the answers were seven and nineteen.