Go Back   Freethought Forum > The Marketplace > The Sciences

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-31-2022, 05:04 PM
-FX-'s Avatar
-FX- -FX- is offline
Forum gadfly
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: In your head
Gender: Male
Posts: MDCCCLXXXVI
Blog Entries: 1
Default The tide doesn't actually come in and out


Neil tries to explain why what you think about tides is wrong.

And goes even farther into wrong.

He probably doesn't even know it either.

:popcorn:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
LarsMac (10-31-2022)
  #2  
Old 10-31-2022, 07:29 PM
Crumb's Avatar
Crumb Crumb is offline
Adequately Crumbulent
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cascadia
Gender: Male
Blog Entries: 22
Images: 355
Default Re: The tide doesn't actually come in and out

No one is going to watch a 13 minute video to try to figure out what you might think is wrong about it. So if you really want to discuss it you need to tell us what you think he is wrong about.
__________________
:joecool2: :cascadia: :ROR: :portland: :joecool2:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
beyelzu (11-02-2022), JoeP (11-01-2022), LarsMac (10-31-2022), mickthinks (10-31-2022), Stormlight (11-03-2022)
  #3  
Old 10-31-2022, 07:51 PM
LarsMac's Avatar
LarsMac LarsMac is offline
Rambling Old Fart
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: On the Road again
Gender: Male
Posts: MMCMXXIV
Default Re: The tide doesn't actually come in and out

I always enjoy listening to those two chatter.

And, they're mostly correct, with some healthy over-simplifications for the masses.

The bit about the Black Hole navigation is kind of a farce. I will try to remember, should I ever find myself going into a Black hole, to pay attention and try to offer them some proper observations.
__________________
“No amount of belief makes something a fact. ” ―
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
JoeP (11-01-2022)
  #4  
Old 10-31-2022, 11:36 PM
-FX-'s Avatar
-FX- -FX- is offline
Forum gadfly
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: In your head
Gender: Male
Posts: MDCCCLXXXVI
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: The tide doesn't actually come in and out


To his credit, Neil prefaces everything with a disclaimer, which is wise and actually scientific.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-31-2022, 11:38 PM
Crumb's Avatar
Crumb Crumb is offline
Adequately Crumbulent
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cascadia
Gender: Male
Blog Entries: 22
Images: 355
Default Re: The tide doesn't actually come in and out

So nice you posted it twice.
__________________
:joecool2: :cascadia: :ROR: :portland: :joecool2:
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-31-2022, 11:40 PM
Ensign Steve's Avatar
Ensign Steve Ensign Steve is offline
California Sober
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Silicon Valley
Gender: Bender
Posts: XXXMMLXXXVI
Images: 66
Default Re: The tide doesn't actually come in and out

Quote:
Originally Posted by -FX- View Post
To his credit, Neil prefaces everything with a disclaimer, which is wise and actually scientific.
I mean, he is wise and an actual scientist, so...
__________________
:kiwf::smurf:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
beyelzu (11-02-2022), JoeP (11-01-2022), Stormlight (11-03-2022)
  #7  
Old 10-31-2022, 11:40 PM
-FX-'s Avatar
-FX- -FX- is offline
Forum gadfly
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: In your head
Gender: Male
Posts: MDCCCLXXXVI
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: The tide doesn't actually come in and out

It should start at the exact time where he is wrong

If that is not happening, I apologize.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-31-2022, 11:41 PM
-FX-'s Avatar
-FX- -FX- is offline
Forum gadfly
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: In your head
Gender: Male
Posts: MDCCCLXXXVI
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: The tide doesn't actually come in and out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign Steve View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by -FX- View Post
To his credit, Neil prefaces everything with a disclaimer, which is wise and actually scientific.
I mean, he is wise and an actual scientist, so...
Yep. And I will bet actual money he might change his mind after he understands why he is wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-01-2022, 12:07 AM
Ari's Avatar
Ari Ari is offline
I read some of your foolish scree, then just skimmed the rest.
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bay Area
Gender: Male
Posts: XMDCCCI
Blog Entries: 8
Default Re: The tide doesn't actually come in and out

Yes technically the drawing at 50 seconds is wrong, although I hesitate to give anyone a cookie for noticing that the earth doesn’t technically spin into a stationary ocean and not noticing that the spinning earth has a permanent light side and dark side.

The drawing does depict a flat earth, which is correct, so I’ll give them that!
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
beyelzu (11-02-2022), Crumb (11-01-2022), Ensign Steve (11-01-2022), JoeP (11-01-2022), Pan Narrans (11-01-2022), slimshady2357 (11-01-2022), Sock Puppet (11-01-2022), Stormlight (11-03-2022)
  #10  
Old 11-01-2022, 01:27 AM
ceptimus's Avatar
ceptimus ceptimus is offline
puzzler
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UK
Posts: XVMMDCCXLII
Images: 28
Default Re: The tide doesn't actually come in and out

It's complicated by how the water slops around coastlines. There are four high tides per day* at Southampton, for example.

* or slightly more accurately, every 24 hours and 50 minutes.
__________________
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Ari (11-01-2022), beyelzu (11-02-2022), JoeP (11-01-2022), LarsMac (11-01-2022), Stormlight (11-03-2022)
  #11  
Old 11-01-2022, 03:19 AM
LarsMac's Avatar
LarsMac LarsMac is offline
Rambling Old Fart
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: On the Road again
Gender: Male
Posts: MMCMXXIV
Default Re: The tide doesn't actually come in and out

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
It's complicated by how the water slops around coastlines. There are four high tides per day* at Southampton, for example.

* or slightly more accurately, every 24 hours and 50 minutes.
Has anyone here been to the Bay of Fundy?
Talk about sloshing around the coastline,...
__________________
“No amount of belief makes something a fact. ” ―
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
beyelzu (11-04-2022)
  #12  
Old 11-02-2022, 04:40 AM
-FX-'s Avatar
-FX- -FX- is offline
Forum gadfly
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: In your head
Gender: Male
Posts: MDCCCLXXXVI
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: The tide doesn't actually come in and out

The Bay has resonance with the North Atlantic amphidrome.

The biggest thing Neil believes in, is shown here. It's right at the front of the video



The image shows the time as well

In plain speaking, there are no twin bulges. That he doesn't know this is an indicator of how much ignorance there is about the actual ocean tides.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-02-2022, 04:41 AM
-FX-'s Avatar
-FX- -FX- is offline
Forum gadfly
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: In your head
Gender: Male
Posts: MDCCCLXXXVI
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: The tide doesn't actually come in and out

All jokes and images of "twin bulges" are OK


Of course
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-03-2022, 04:27 AM
But's Avatar
But But is offline
This is the title that appears beneath your name on your posts.
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: MVDCCCLXXII
Default Re: The tide doesn't actually come in and out

"the water stretches" Yeah, his explanation of how tides happen is pretty much complete nonsense.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-03-2022, 05:30 PM
LarsMac's Avatar
LarsMac LarsMac is offline
Rambling Old Fart
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: On the Road again
Gender: Male
Posts: MMCMXXIV
Default Re: The tide doesn't actually come in and out

What we seem to have, here, is an over-complication of an attempt at an over-simplification of a not-too-complicated concept.
__________________
“No amount of belief makes something a fact. ” ―
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Ari (11-03-2022), beyelzu (11-03-2022), Crumb (11-03-2022), JoeP (11-04-2022)
  #16  
Old 11-03-2022, 11:22 PM
-FX-'s Avatar
-FX- -FX- is offline
Forum gadfly
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: In your head
Gender: Male
Posts: MDCCCLXXXVI
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: The tide doesn't actually come in and out

I don't think deGrasse would even understand
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-04-2022, 12:22 AM
beyelzu's Avatar
beyelzu beyelzu is offline
simple country microbiologist hyperchicken
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: georgia
Posts: XMVDCXVIII
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 8
Default Re: The tide doesn't actually come in and out

Nvm
__________________
:blowkiss: :beloved: :blowkiss: :beloved: :blowkiss: :steve: :blowkiss: :beloved: :blowkiss: :beloved: :blowkiss:

Last edited by beyelzu; 11-04-2022 at 02:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-04-2022, 12:37 AM
fragment's Avatar
fragment fragment is offline
mesospheric bore
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Zealand
Gender: Male
Posts: VMCDXXXII
Blog Entries: 8
Images: 143
Default Re: The tide doesn't actually come in and out

Great. Now we'll get 50 pages of FX telling us that's wrong. Again. Thanks, bey.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
beyelzu (11-04-2022), Crumb (11-04-2022), JoeP (11-04-2022), LarsMac (11-04-2022), Pan Narrans (11-04-2022), Sock Puppet (11-04-2022)
  #19  
Old 11-04-2022, 12:41 AM
beyelzu's Avatar
beyelzu beyelzu is offline
simple country microbiologist hyperchicken
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: georgia
Posts: XMVDCXVIII
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 8
Default Re: The tide doesn't actually come in and out

Nvm
__________________
:blowkiss: :beloved: :blowkiss: :beloved: :blowkiss: :steve: :blowkiss: :beloved: :blowkiss: :beloved: :blowkiss:

Last edited by beyelzu; 11-04-2022 at 02:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-04-2022, 12:44 AM
fragment's Avatar
fragment fragment is offline
mesospheric bore
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Zealand
Gender: Male
Posts: VMCDXXXII
Blog Entries: 8
Images: 143
Default Re: The tide doesn't actually come in and out

He's right that there's no bulge of water traversing the globe underneath the moon, but he only starts (and continues for decades) these threads to troll.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-04-2022, 02:17 AM
beyelzu's Avatar
beyelzu beyelzu is offline
simple country microbiologist hyperchicken
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: georgia
Posts: XMVDCXVIII
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 8
Default Re: The tide doesn't actually come in and out

Edited nvm
__________________
:blowkiss: :beloved: :blowkiss: :beloved: :blowkiss: :steve: :blowkiss: :beloved: :blowkiss: :beloved: :blowkiss:
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-04-2022, 06:01 AM
But's Avatar
But But is offline
This is the title that appears beneath your name on your posts.
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: MVDCCCLXXII
Default Re: The tide doesn't actually come in and out

I mean, it's very common, but the idea is completely wrong. If you had an inhomogeneous gravitational field that diminishes just like that of the Moon, but with field lines parallel, you wouldn't get tides. You would technically, but just 1mm or so. The reason tides exist is because the Moon pulls on the water at different angles. That gives a sideways component to the force, and that's what piles up the water. Simply put, the water wants to go where the Moon is, but it's held down, so it pushes sideways and the rest of the water can't go anywhere but up.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Ari (11-05-2022)
  #23  
Old 11-04-2022, 08:19 AM
-FX-'s Avatar
-FX- -FX- is offline
Forum gadfly
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: In your head
Gender: Male
Posts: MDCCCLXXXVI
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: The tide doesn't actually come in and out

No
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-05-2022, 02:57 AM
-FX-'s Avatar
-FX- -FX- is offline
Forum gadfly
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: In your head
Gender: Male
Posts: MDCCCLXXXVI
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: The tide doesn't actually come in and out

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarsMac View Post
... a not-too-complicated concept.
The actual oceans tides are one of the most complicated things known to science. It wasn't until the TOPEX and JASON data was gathered that the most powerful models could almost predict the tides.

Almost.

There is very very many wrong things about the tides, even still.
Quote:
"French astronomer François Arago once said that studying the tides was the tomb of human curiosity."
How Tides Work? | Highbrow

No, he did not. Here's the actual text, from Bartleby

"If we descend from the heavens to the earth, the discoveries of Laplace will appear not less worthy of his genius. He reduced the phenomena of the tides, which an ancient philosopher termed in despair “the tomb of human curiosity,” to an analytical theory in which the physical conditions of the question figure for the first time."
Francois Arago (1786-1853), physicist, astronomer.

The biggest one is the "twin bulges", which simply isn't true. It's not even close.

Quote:
However, the earth itself is also being pulled towards the moon ever so slightly, which creates another high tide at the exact opposite end of the moon. Water is finite, so as the moon pulls water towards one end and the earth moving towards the moon creates high tides on the opposite end, the two sides are being deprived of water. Thus, if you picture the moon on the top of the earth in a two-dimensional view, the top and bottom of the Earth will have high tides while the two sides will be in low tide
Once you know there are no twin bulges, then you also know the three different explanations for them are also wrong.

I thought 12 years ago that the tides was a settled matter, but indeed, to most people it is still “the tomb of human curiosity”
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
LarsMac (11-05-2022)
  #25  
Old 11-05-2022, 06:06 AM
LarsMac's Avatar
LarsMac LarsMac is offline
Rambling Old Fart
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: On the Road again
Gender: Male
Posts: MMCMXXIV
Default Re: The tide doesn't actually come in and out

Having spent many early years around the Sea, we always understood the tides.
However, it is often far easier to understand a thing than it is to explain it in Human languages.

I agree that the "Twin Bulges" notion is one of the more poorly expressed attempts.

The entire crust of the Earth is affected by the "Gravitational attraction" between the Moon and Earth, as well as the same between the Sun and Earth.
Being more malleable, the waters exhibit a more detectable reaction. What we call Tides are a manifestation of the process.

And, the Earth is not alone in the story, by any means. We can see similar behavior on Jupiter, Neptune, and Saturn. It is not about Water, at all, really.
__________________
“No amount of belief makes something a fact. ” ―

Last edited by LarsMac; 11-05-2022 at 06:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Kamilah Hauptmann (11-05-2022)
Reply

  Freethought Forum > The Marketplace > The Sciences


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

 

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Page generated in 0.30364 seconds with 13 queries