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  #8801  
Old 04-25-2012, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
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Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
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You have been wrong that his observations are nothing but assertions.
No I haven't been wrong at all.

Quote:
There will be scientists who will give this knowledge the time of day, and will do empirical testing if that is what's called for.
I grant it is possible, but I predict it will not happen.
You can predict anything you want, but that doesn't make your predictions correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea
You be sure to let me know if my prediction fails.
I won't have to. It will be front page news, but most likely not in our lifetime.

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Why do you keep hounding me on when I'm leaving?
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Originally Posted by LadyShea
I am not hounding you on when you are leaving, I am asking you to share your motivation for staying....because it seems completely irrational given your feelings about the people here and the board's culture in general.
My motivation for staying is as simple as getting caught up in the conversation again, but I see nothing has changed, so I'm not staying for long.
The only way you are gonna be able to leave is if you get help.
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  #8802  
Old 04-25-2012, 07:47 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
The quote you used is not meaningful in any way since it doesn't hold true in most cases and is almost completely irrelevant in the context of today's scientific and technological environment.

It may have been relevant in the 19th century.
I think his quote is just as true now as it was back then. It seems to me that today's scientific environment can be quite hostile toward those who are not in the right academic circles. I believe his point was well made.
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  #8803  
Old 04-25-2012, 07:48 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl
There will be scientists who will give this knowledge the time of day, and will do empirical testing if that is what's called for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea
I grant it is possible, but I predict it will not happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl
You can predict anything you want, but that doesn't make your predictions correct.
It doesn't make your prediction's correct either, however since my prediction is firmly based on reality and yours on faith, I am pretty sure mine is more accurate.
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  #8804  
Old 04-25-2012, 07:49 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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The point he was making is that sometimes new knowledge is dismissed in the beginning, but gradually it gets accepted, and then finally it it feels the new knowledge becomes second nature.
He didn't say sometimes, he said "all truth"
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  #8805  
Old 04-25-2012, 08:01 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger View Post
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Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
What is bringing the light/dark/hue patterns praytell? LIGHT!!!!! But you can't automatically conclude that we see reality in our mind when this is the very thing that is being challenged. :doh:
After this has been explained to you approximately 10,000 times, the only possible explanation for your saying something so mind-bogglingly stupid and ignorant is that your ignorance is willful.

Well, that or damage to the hippocampus.
I'm sorry you feel that way, but I was responding to David who was trying to put me down because I said light carries the image. Then he goes on to say that no, light doesn't do that, it is the pattern of light and dark that strikes the eyes. Of course it is a pattern, but it's still light that is bringing (or carrying) the information in the pattern. People are making a big deal out of the way I word something, yet it means the same exact thing.
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  #8806  
Old 04-25-2012, 08:03 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Quote:
The point he was making is that sometimes new knowledge is dismissed in the beginning, but gradually it gets accepted, and then finally it it feels the new knowledge becomes second nature.
He didn't say sometimes, he said "all truth"
I think he was referring to truths that are not easily accepted because they go against the thinking of that time period.
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  #8807  
Old 04-25-2012, 08:59 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

Quote:
I think he was referring to truths that are not easily accepted because they go against the thinking of that time period.
You think he was referring to what you want him to have been referring to to make your point relevant and meaningful. Confirmation bias much? :lol:
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  #8808  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:00 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
All truth goes through three stages. First it is ridiculed; then it is
violently opposed; finally it is accepted as self-evident.

Well some truth does go thru these stages, but, as has been pointed out, some are accepted right away. The key point, however, is whether we are dealing with the truth at all. In the case of Lessans book it would seem that we are not dealing with the truth and therefore Schopenhaur's quote does not apply to this knowledge. Falsehoods and untruth will simply stay at the stage of ridicule and opposition, Though I do think Bozo was respected and accepted - as a clown.
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  #8809  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

Quote:
It's still light that is bringing (or carrying) the information in the pattern..
No, as has been explained light doesn't bring or carry anything. "Information in the pattern" is a nonsensical statement
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  #8810  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:04 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl
There will be scientists who will give this knowledge the time of day, and will do empirical testing if that is what's called for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea
I grant it is possible, but I predict it will not happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl
You can predict anything you want, but that doesn't make your predictions correct.
It doesn't make your prediction's correct either, however since my prediction is firmly based on reality and yours on faith, I am pretty sure mine is more accurate.
That's the problem. Your think your prediction is based on reality and mine on faith. I am pretty sure mine is more accurate. Unfortunately, the actual truth as to who is right will not be determined in this forum.
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  #8811  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

"All laughably idiotic bunkum passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, ... come to think of it, never mind. There's really just the one stage -- ridicule."

~ Arthur Schwanzstucker
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  #8812  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:06 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

The light doesn't bring the message, the light is the message.
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  #8813  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:06 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

Reposting this

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Let's try an analogy. When you look at a painting of a barn, do you think the image of the barn traveled in or with the paint to the canvas? Do you think the pattern of the barn traveled on the brush to the canvas?

The image was created by the paint physically contacting the canvas in a certain pattern of colors and intensities.

When we talk about vision and photography, we are saying that the light physically contacts the sensor, and that there are different colors and intensities of light contacting those sensors, and the image is created from the pattern of color and intensity of that light. The image did not exist before this physical contact. There was just light traveling.
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  #8814  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:07 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Quote:
It's still light that is bringing (or carrying) the information in the pattern..
No, as has been explained light doesn't bring or carry anything. "Information in the pattern" is a nonsensical statement
I think it makes perfect sense. The pattern of the light gives us information.
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  #8815  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:08 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl
There will be scientists who will give this knowledge the time of day, and will do empirical testing if that is what's called for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea
I grant it is possible, but I predict it will not happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl
You can predict anything you want, but that doesn't make your predictions correct.
It doesn't make your prediction's correct either, however since my prediction is firmly based on reality and yours on faith, I am pretty sure mine is more accurate.
That's the problem. Your think your prediction is based on reality and mine on faith. I am pretty sure mine is more accurate. Unfortunately, the actual truth as to who is right will not be determined in this forum.
On what do you base your prediction that "scientists will give this knowledge the time of day"?
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  #8816  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:09 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Seeing as how shit Schopenhauer said is totally relevant

As a consequence of her weaker reasoning powers, woman has a smaller share of the advantages and disadvantages these bring with them. She is, rather, a mental myopic~Schopenhauer
What does this have to do with his quotation? There were a lot of misogynists back in the day.
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  #8817  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:11 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Quote:
It's still light that is bringing (or carrying) the information in the pattern..
No, as has been explained light doesn't bring or carry anything. "Information in the pattern" is a nonsensical statement
I think it makes perfect sense. The pattern of the light gives us information.
Read your sentence again "light is bringing (or carrying) the information in the pattern"

The pattern the arriving light creates gives us information about the light, yes, that is not the same thing as what you said though
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  #8818  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:11 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

You know, I have read Schopenhauer, and actually like most of his work a great deal. And I got to wondering about this quote of his. Because I don't recall reading it anywhere in the works of his that I have read. So I did some digging. And guess what?

Schopenhauer never said it.

The tipoff, for me, was this "all" bit. Schopenhauer said some silly things about women and perhaps much else besides, but the "all truth" statement didn't ring right. It's not a mistake a careful philosopher would make, to make a blanket generalization about all truth.

So, in addition to a book full of crap, there is appended a statement by Schopenhauer that he never actually said! Brilliant work, peacegirl! :giggle:
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  #8819  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:12 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl
There will be scientists who will give this knowledge the time of day, and will do empirical testing if that is what's called for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea
I grant it is possible, but I predict it will not happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl
You can predict anything you want, but that doesn't make your predictions correct.
It doesn't make your prediction's correct either, however since my prediction is firmly based on reality and yours on faith, I am pretty sure mine is more accurate.
That's the problem. Your think your prediction is based on reality and mine on faith. I am pretty sure mine is more accurate. Unfortunately, the actual truth as to who is right will not be determined in this forum.
On what do you base your prediction that "scientists will give this knowledge the time of day"?
Because this knowledge is valid and can be verified. Therefore it is my belief that it's only a matter of time before scientists take a serious look at this discovery.
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  #8820  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:13 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

Well, if it's written somewhere peacegirl assumes someone verified it, she doesn't verify anything herself ever.
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  #8821  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:16 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidm View Post
You know, I have read Schopenhauer, and actually like most of his work a great deal. And I got to wondering about this quote of his. Because I don't recall reading it anywhere in the works of his that I have read. So I did some digging. And guess what?

Schopenhauer never said it.

The tipoff, for me, was this "all" bit. Schopenhauer said some silly things about women and perhaps much else besides, but the "all truth" statement didn't ring right. It's not a mistake a careful philosopher would make, to make a blanket generalization about all truth.

So, in addition to a book full of crap, there is appended a statement by Schopenhauer that he never actually said! Brilliant work, peacegirl! :giggle:
I'm sorry if I was wrong, but his quotes are right here in black and white. I can't go checking the reliability of every single website:

Arthur Schopenhauer Quotes (Author of The World as Will and Representation, 1 of 2)
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  #8822  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:19 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

That's the same reason you gave for lifting a whole web page of unverified quotes wholesale and using it in the book without attribution. You still don't know if those quotes were accurate, I'll bet

Scholars don't publish books without citations and references to sources
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  #8823  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:21 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidm View Post
You know, I have read Schopenhauer, and actually like most of his work a great deal. And I got to wondering about this quote of his. Because I don't recall reading it anywhere in the works of his that I have read. So I did some digging. And guess what?

Schopenhauer never said it.

The tipoff, for me, was this "all" bit. Schopenhauer said some silly things about women and perhaps much else besides, but the "all truth" statement didn't ring right. It's not a mistake a careful philosopher would make, to make a blanket generalization about all truth.

So, in addition to a book full of crap, there is appended a statement by Schopenhauer that he never actually said! Brilliant work, peacegirl! :giggle:
I'm sorry if I was wrong, but his quotes are right here in black and white. I can't go checking the reliability of every single website:

Arthur Schopenhauer Quotes (Author of The World as Will and Representation, 1 of 2)
LOL.

So because someone attributes a quote to Schopenhauer on a Web site somewhere, you assume the attribution is correct? Is this like how you assume Lessans was right, just because he said he was? :giggle:
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  #8824  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Well, if it's written somewhere peacegirl assumes someone verified it, she doesn't verify anything herself ever.
Remember the Internet Checkers?

:mechwalker:
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  #8825  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:25 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

Oh, but, she was totally joking, that's all, just a little joke see?
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