Fucking education! How does it work?

[erimir]

They might've been high stakes. I wouldn't have known though, because I never had any negative consequences from them.

But I think that the nonsense words thing is far less harmful than the general standardized subject tests.

[LadyShea]

Oh probably, it just pissed me off because I am knee deep in the phonics shit...site words that don't follow any rules are bad enough.

[erimir]

Tu bad wi känt jøst spel þingz in a founetik mäner, ei? 'twüd meik tiching children hau tu rid møch izier.

[LadyShea]

Touche. Reading clicks differently with everyone, and teaching a brand new reader is different the cool tricks a fluent reader can do.

[LadyShea]

Not to worry everyone, Bill Gates is handling it

Behind Grass-Roots School Advocacy, Bill Gates - NYTimes.com

This ties in to this thread as well

In other news, check out the 180 of Diane Ravitch which is very interesting (I am reading her book)

[Qingdai]

Oh whee. Maybe we can privatize education at least for the poors.

I'm sure Microsoft (which used prison labor and Chinese factories) has our best interests at heart.

By the way, my son just took https://dibels.uoregon.edu/, which is a test on the reading of nonsense words. I'm sort of leery of doing so much testing so early.

[LadyShea]

They do the DIBELS here in K, 1 and 2. There is no opt out in our state, does Oregon allow it?

Anyway you may be interested in some research I did. I saw that this book had a chapter specific to Alabama. The book isn't available at my library and I don't really want to buy it, so I wrote to the author of that chapter. This is part of her response.

Originally Posted by Dr. Seay

Some of the particular issues I was interested in are the questionable use of this instrument for English language learners and the use of DIBELS for students with speech impediments, especially stutterers. There has also been a good deal of research that suggests it is not a valid measure for students in poverty. I feel that there are other more valid assessments that give teachers a better picture of a student’s progress in reading, but my main complaint with DIBELS is that is focuses on a set of narrow skills that haven’t been proven to lead to comprehension which is, after all, the point of reading.

When children do poorly on a DIBELS assessment they are given more practice in those DIBELS skills they have not mastered. My opinion is that they need practice with meaningful text, not isolated skills, and certainly not more of the same, only louder and longer.

I did discuss the issue with some folks at the SDE, and one result is that the use of DIBELS as a high stakes assessment has been lessened, and DIBELS scores are not published in the newspaper or the SDE website, as they once were.

DIBELS was not developed as a high stakes measure and even the authors of the DIBELS assessment have stated that it should not be used as such. DIBELS is a snapshot of a child’s skills on one day, and there are many problems with using it as THE assessment for reading.

Ken Goodman (especially knowledgeable) and Stephen Krashen are researchers who know more about the test and its flaws than I do, so you may want to ask them some questions. Some systems may not allow you to opt out because it is part of their core reading program and you cannot opt out of the core. I certainly agree that there are many instances where it is not appropriate, especially for kindergartners. Another person who can give you information is Susan Ohanian

[Qingdai]

I can't tell whether or not Oregon has an opt out option for the tests.

I noticed there is a certain teaching of the test, so I suspect that since Qingdai jr. goes to a title 1 school, there is some push to do well and have a lot of standardized tests, for funding. I find teaching to the test disconcerting, but am not particularly worried about that, since we do so much other stuff at home. Also taking a bunch of tests was normal for me as a kid, as I was in an early variation of Talented and Gifted, we had to do tests every year or so. At one point I opted out of tests, but man, am I good at taking tests now. They're like games for me.

[LadyShea]

Yeah, we have 93 schools in the state that get Reading First funding. Those schools have to use and report assessments in the early grades, and they use DIBELS. For the other schools, like ours, it is not high stakes.

However, the teacher and Kiddo will both know that we, his parents, don't give a shit how he scores on it, because it doesn't seem to be an accurate measurement of anything we care about.

[irukandji]

YouTube - ‪The Whitest Kids U' Know...

&feature=player_embedded

[Megatron]

Fucking education! How does it work?

Very poorly, from what I've seen over the last 10 years or so.

[lisarea]

Kids who spot bullshit, and the adults who get upset about it – Bad Science

[LadyShea]

That is a really cool article

[erimir]

Wow... I can't believe that Brain Gym crap is in British schools.

[thedoc]

Thanks liserea, I was one of those kids who could occasionally spot BS but I'm sure there were many who, like me, didn't speak up. I only did once in Geometry class and the teacher actually cross the textbook proof out, based on mine. Unfortunately I have continued to see these errors in other peoples thinking but usually don't speak up, I got into some trouble at one place I worked because of that, I lost the job later anyhow so it really didn't matter.

[LadyShea]

YouTube - ‪Kurt Fischer: En...

&NR=1

[LadyShea]

That was a pretty good talk. Also, top neuroscientists think current pedagogy sucks. Assorted experts think it sucks (I am reading Diane Ravitch right now). Srsly, why is everybody listening to the standardistas (and those who make money from testing and politicized textbooks and crappy curricula) and NOT child development experts?

[Crumb]

They have more money.

[Kael]

Plus, standardistas propose simple, catch-all solutions while child development experts get all with their "it's complicated" and "everyone's different" talk.

That it is complicated, and that simple solutions have demonstrably failed to work, doesn't seem to phase anyone.

[Ensign Steve]

I don't want to start a new thread for this (although if I did it would be called Kids These Days!) and it would be a catch-all thread for the crazy shit kids get up to.

Actually, you know what? I do want to do that.

[The Lone Ranger]

Originally Posted by irukandji

YouTube - ‪The Whitest Kids U' Know - Pledge of Allegiance‬‏

I wish I could thank that twice!

Once, when I was in the Fifth Grade, our teacher told us about the evil, horrible Russkies Soviets, and how they forced children to recite loyalty oaths to the state. She went on to explain how this was brainwashing and a terrible, terrible thing to do to kids who were not yet old-enough to appreciate what was being asked of them.

If she was aware of the irony that she'd led us in the "Pledge of Allegiance" just an hour or so earlier, she didn't let on.

It's possible, of course, that she was quietly and subtly trying to make a point. If so, she was successful, because that lecture on the evils of forced conformity has stuck in my head ever since.

[The Lone Ranger]

Originally Posted by lisarea

Kids who spot bullshit, and the adults who get upset about it – Bad Science

People wring their hands over how to make science relevant and accessible, but newspapers hand us one answer on a plate every week, with the barrage of claims on what’s good for you or bad for you: it’s evidence based medicine. If every school taught the basics – randomised trials, blinding, cohort studies, and why systematic reviews are better than cherrypicking your evidence – it would help everyone navigate the world, and learn some of the most important ideas in the whole of science.

Amen!

[LadyShea]

Libertarians at reason.tv take on the Save Our Schools Rally

reason.tv - Videos > What We Saw at the Save Our Schools Rally in Washington D.C.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by Kael

That it is complicated, and that simple solutions have demonstrably failed to work, doesn't seem to phase anyone.

Unfortunately 'simple' is what the schools have the resources to do, I didn't see anyone stepping up to supply the resources to do 'complicated'. That would take a lot more physical materials and a lot more staff. People complain about large classes for each teacher, and with student numbers rising they want to cut funding thereby cutting staff. No-one wants to pay higher school tax, or if you do speak up, at your own risk.

[wildernesse]

My mom is a public school superintendent, and she has these weird ideas like that she should actually visit the schools in her district and check on how the teachers are teaching students stuff. Plus, I think she needs the recharge of talking to kids about what they are learning and interacting with them every once in a while, instead of trying to find a few million more dollars to cut out of the budget.

But. The teachers would be a lot better off if they didn't say "Oh, we just finished this unit!" but if they said "We're just starting to learn about X". Then, when their students don't know anything, it's because they haven't learned about it yet. This tactic also works better than giving the super a blank stare when she asks you what project/work the students did to demonstrate that they understood the concepts they supposedly learned. FYI!

This week on a school visit, she learned that the Native Americans who lived in their area probably got any feathers that they used in clothing/decoration from chickens. I think she should be happy that those kids knew chickens are birds and have feathers.