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08-12-2009, 03:39 PM
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Guðríð the Gloomy
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lansing, MI
Gender: Female
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Health Care Reform Dead
I'm beginning to think that there's no chance any more for decent health care reform. It's been poisoned by the lunatic fringe to the point that I just don't see how anything of value is going to pass.
I'd love to be wrong.
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08-12-2009, 04:21 PM
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Babby Police
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Re: Health Care Reform Dead
Move to Canada.
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08-12-2009, 04:23 PM
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California Sober
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Silicon Valley
Gender: Bender
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Re: Health Care Reform Dead
Give global warming another couple years first.
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08-12-2009, 04:26 PM
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the internet says I'm right
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Western U.S.
Gender: Male
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Re: Health Care Reform Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by D. Scarlatti
Move to Canada practically any other industrialized nation on the planet.
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__________________
For Science!Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
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08-12-2009, 04:29 PM
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Guðríð the Gloomy
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lansing, MI
Gender: Female
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Re: Health Care Reform Dead
I can't. I'm stuck here.
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08-12-2009, 05:30 PM
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Servant of the Dark Lord
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Gender: Bender
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Re: Health Care Reform Dead
The only way to properly reform health care would be to have a publicly funded universal health care system. Since this isn't going to happen, any reform would be a failure since it would fall short of that goal.
It annoys me when people call Obama a socialist. If he was, that would be a good thing.
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08-12-2009, 05:36 PM
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Dogehlaugher -Scrutari
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northwest
Gender: Female
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Re: Health Care Reform Dead
I think the only shot we have a real health care reform is on a state by state level. Big pharma and health insurance companies have been doling out money for years to "our" elected representatives.
So the best I think congress can do this at this point is change the federal laws that prevent states from enacting their own universal health care laws.
I didn't think it was much of a chance.
I would be happy if the "no child left behind" bullshit was changed though, I'm hoping education gets a bit better, only because there aren't as many corporations making money off of fucked up education.
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08-12-2009, 05:43 PM
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Guðríð the Gloomy
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lansing, MI
Gender: Female
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Re: Health Care Reform Dead
I think that there are some incremental changes that would be helpful and could lead to eventual full scale reform. For example, the provision in the House bill to stop insurers from denying people because of pre-existing conditions would help a lot of people. Sure, it isn't the kind of wholesale reform that is really needed, but it's a start. I also thing the provision in the bill for end of life counseling to be covered is an outstanding idea.
I've pretty much given up on the idea of complete reform. As of this morning, I'm further concerned that even the possibility of incremental change is lost in the firestorm of blatant lie and fear mongering campaigns waged by...hell...I don't even know who's waving the conductor's baton. It just seems to me that whoever they are, they've won. The whole debate has been poisoned and polarized to the point that rational voices are completely drowned out.
What prompted this is that I overheard some discussions here at work that have just blown my mind. Normally pretty smart people here have bought into some of the most egregious lies. I really thought that it was pretty easy to see that Palin's "Death Panel" was just a damned lie. But some people here believe it. It has blown my mind. I showed them the relevent portion of the bill and explained what is really is. Guess what? I'm the one who is "doesn't understand."
It's just fucking crazy.
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08-12-2009, 05:49 PM
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Dogehlaugher -Scrutari
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northwest
Gender: Female
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Re: Health Care Reform Dead
I do think it's crazy, it'd be great if they stopped the pre-existing condition bit. Advanced directive counseling certainly isn't a "death panel." I think they could have made insurance less draconian and available for a few more people, but I wasn't holding my breath that comprehensive change would be enacted.
Universal health care bills have passed in a couple of states to get knocked down by the federal law (ERISA?), so I don't think the well is completely poisoned. The reality of people's crappy experiences will eventually out weigh the stupid spin machine, I hope.
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08-12-2009, 06:00 PM
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Dancing redshirt
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hellmouth
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Re: Health Care Reform Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet
I can't. I'm stuck here.
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I'll marry you and then you can get an EU green card.
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08-12-2009, 06:06 PM
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Guðríð the Gloomy
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lansing, MI
Gender: Female
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Re: Health Care Reform Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miisa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet
I can't. I'm stuck here.
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I'll marry you and then you can get an EU green card.
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How do you feel about kids?
ETA: And bigamy?
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08-12-2009, 06:22 PM
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Dancing redshirt
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hellmouth
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Re: Health Care Reform Dead
Clues: I have kids and am bonking my ex. We'd be an extra-large happy family.
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08-12-2009, 06:23 PM
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Guðríð the Gloomy
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lansing, MI
Gender: Female
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Re: Health Care Reform Dead
Hmmmmm......
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08-12-2009, 06:26 PM
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Don't trust Me. As per the HH.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mid Michigan
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Re: Health Care Reform Dead
__________________
All gave some, some gave all.
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08-12-2009, 06:46 PM
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A3 - authentic anarchist asshole
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Re: Health Care Reform Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet
I think that there are some incremental changes that would be helpful and could lead to eventual full scale reform. For example, the provision in the House bill to stop insurers from denying people because of pre-existing conditions would help a lot of people. Sure, it isn't the kind of wholesale reform that is really needed, but it's a start.
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I have a better idea: deny insurance companies any corporate status. As a result, they will have to work harder and be a little more creative to get customers. Not only would they start offering insurance to to people with pre-existing conditions but heck, I am willing to bet they will offer insurance to your dead relatives in preparation for the second coming.
__________________
Fight cyber with cyber and initiate no aggression.
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08-12-2009, 06:57 PM
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Vice Cobra Assistant Commander
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA
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Re: Health Care Reform Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Samuel8
...heck, I am willing to bet they will offer insurance to your dead relatives in preparation for the second coming.
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Shucks, given the opportunity to insure those with no chance of ever incurring a "medical loss", I bet those kindly insurance folk just might!
__________________
"Trans Am Jesus" is "what hanged me"
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08-12-2009, 07:05 PM
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the internet says I'm right
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Western U.S.
Gender: Male
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Re: Health Care Reform Dead
Ah, the free market. So awesome it will even insure your dead relatives, and unburden you from those piles of spendable wealth you have for the privilege. Will the wonders never cease?
__________________
For Science!Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
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08-12-2009, 07:37 PM
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rude, crude, lewd, and unsophisticated
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Puddle City, Cascadia
Gender: Male
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Re: Health Care Reform Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet
Hmmmmm......
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That sounds idyllic, but watch out...places like that demand that you do things like lasting through an entire meal with lutefisk without grimacing. And they have their version of waterboarding, too...they parboil you first, flog you with birch switches, and then immerse you in freezing cold water.
Barbaric.
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08-12-2009, 07:39 PM
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Guðríð the Gloomy
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lansing, MI
Gender: Female
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Re: Health Care Reform Dead
Well, I could put up with kids. But lutefisk? Uh. Ewwwww.
Sauna, on the other hand, is right up my alley. Would I get to be the flogger or the floggee?
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08-12-2009, 07:43 PM
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rude, crude, lewd, and unsophisticated
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Puddle City, Cascadia
Gender: Male
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Re: Health Care Reform Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet
Well, I could put up with kids. But lutefisk? Uh. Ewwwww.
Sauna, on the other hand, is right up my alley. Would I get to be the flogger or the floggee?
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I think the Finns deny the lutefisk and blame the Swedes (they blame the Swedes for everything, including the Russians).
I think the flogging is a reciprocity thing, but Miisa can clear up the details.
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08-12-2009, 07:43 PM
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Don't trust Me. As per the HH.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mid Michigan
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Re: Health Care Reform Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet
Would I get to be the flogger or the floggee?
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aYup.
__________________
All gave some, some gave all.
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08-12-2009, 07:44 PM
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Dancing redshirt
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hellmouth
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Re: Health Care Reform Dead
It's self- ...er,-floggelation.
And lutefisk is a prank played on gullible tourist, FYI.
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08-12-2009, 07:44 PM
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Fishy mokey
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Furrin parts
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Re: Health Care Reform Dead
Lutefisk is Norwegian. Sauna is Finnish though. I know only one Finnish person (a friend of a friend) and she confirms the stereotype that they can take amazing amounts of booze.
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08-12-2009, 07:45 PM
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the internet says I'm right
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Western U.S.
Gender: Male
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Re: Health Care Reform Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet
Would I get to be the flogger or the floggee?
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You rotate.
...
...
( )
__________________
For Science!Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
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08-12-2009, 07:46 PM
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Dancing redshirt
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hellmouth
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Re: Health Care Reform Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by godfry n. glad
I think the Finns deny the lutefisk and blame the Swedes (they blame the Swedes for everything, including the Russians).
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Do you deny that they are to blame?
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