A Song of Fire and Ice Mafia: Game Thread

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by misthinks

Sun #235: Please address the fact that you have misrepresented me and continue to do so even aftrer being corrected repeatedly.

You mean as in Sun #223: He said I was trying to portray damian's death as a tragedy when I never even said it was bad. ?

Sure! I said nothing about a tragedy, but I did say post #132 was a claim that the night-kill of an independent might be bad for the town.

Which is misrepresenting me. Stop doing it. I never said that. I never thought it.

[Sun Tzu]

I don't really care so much if I get lynched for something stupid but it really pisses me off when someone says that I said something I didn't say.

If you don't retract it and apologize, I'm going to take it personally, game or no game. Even if you're scum, I can't tolerate that kind of dishonesty.

[wei yau]

See? It's stuff like this that makes it so difficult to read Sun. If you can find a way to just let it go, then please do so.

Can't we just play the game now?

[Crumb]

Yes, this game would go much better if both Sun and mick could drop it. We've heard both your arguments.

[mickthinks]

Sorry, Crumbo! I'm not sure which of yours and Sun's posts I shouldn't have responded to, but I'll try to avoid answering any more if you think it's best.

[Crumb]

come on mick.

[mickthinks]

I'm really sorry, Crumb, but I don't know what you want me to do here. If "mick, drop it" doesn't mean stop responding to the thread, what did you mean?

[cappuccino]

Ok micks, the game thread's gotten off track, let's get it back to game playing ok?

My vote still stands.

We'll just have to wait and see if you're an actual scum or not, Sun.

[beyelzu]

Everyone play the game and please leave nongame bullshit outside the game. Please.

[Sun Tzu]

I'm not posting anything else until everyone acknowledges that I never said damian's lynch was bad for the town.

[cappuccino]

Don't be a touchy , it's not our problem that you allowed mick to push your buttons.

[slimshady2357]

Originally Posted by Crumb

I think this whole mickthinks v. Sun Tzu thing might be a red herring. One of them may be scum, but I don't think their argument is good evidence for or against either of them. The two I am most suspicious of now are capp and slimshady. The way they are pusuing sun but for not implicating mickthinks as if his logic was sound seems fishy.

I am suspecting a

capp - mick or slim - mick partnership. For some reason I am really leaning towards slim.

So I vote: slimshady. and if he is scum I would go for mickthinks next.

That's the best i can do at this point. Anyone up for a name (not role) claim? This may be the time.

Ok, that's a little strange since I've twice posted that I think mick looks suspicious in that exchange also, just less so than Sun.

Why would you suddenly come out and say "The way they are pusuing sun but for not implicating mickthinks as if his logic was sound seems fishy." when I specifically said I don't understand what mick is getting at as well as stating that he would be my next suspect if Sun was innocent.

That kind of misrepresenation is very scummy. FOS Crumb.

I haven't been around much today because of a trip to the dentist, so I'm going to unvote for now and read through again. I'll cast my vote before nightfall though and likely pretty soon.

[Crumb]

What I am trying to say slim is that I do not see Sun or mick as scummy. Annoying yes, but scummy no. (certainly not BOTH scummy.)

I get a scummy vibe from you and your retaliatory FOS does not reduce that vibe.

[slimshady2357]

Originally Posted by mickthinks

I vote against a name reveal for reasons given earlier. Skydin was a villager with a Lannister name. That suggests to me that lynching suspicious names is likely to lose us the game very quickly. It is also perhaps worth adding that the strongest advocate for a roll call was damian, an independent who may have felt his winning chances would improve with a quick scum victory.

How could an independent win after a scum victory?

That doesn't even make sense, unless there are games where the scum win and then someone else can win? I've never heard of such a thing.

I'm indifferent to a name claim, I don't think it will be very revealing to anyone. As pointed out, there was a townie Lannister.

After reading through again, my thoughts have shifted a little for a couple of people. Crumb looks scummy now, with his voting for me on false grounds. Mick looks a little more scummy with his strange quote above and wei looks a little less scummy after more participation. Although his use of 'dogged FOS'ing' in regards to my 2 posts about him being a little scummy seems over the top to me.

Still, who to vote for. My three biggest suspects, in order, are probably Crumb, Sun and mick right now. I certainly don't like the idea of having a mayor that might be scum. Giving the scum the tie breaking vote is brutal.

So I'm going to vote Crumb on the basis that he is voting for me on false grounds and pretty much out of no where too.

[slimshady2357]

Originally Posted by Crumb

What I am trying to say slim is that I do not see Sun or mick as scummy. Annoying yes, but scummy no. (certainly not BOTH scummy.)

I get a scummy vibe from you and your retaliatory FOS does not reduce that vibe.

I thought you would come out with the 'retaliatory FOS' crap. I'm FOSing you because you specifically said you were suspicious of me and capp because we were 'pursuing' Sun without implicating mick. That is complete crap in respect to me and yet you voted for me. Anyone can go back and read the 2 posts where I mentioned mick. One where I said he was my next target after Sun and one where I said I didn't understand where mick was coming from (in his attacks on Sun), but that he looked less suspicious than Sun in the exchange.

Now I'm even more sure you're scum. False accusations and when I point it out and call you on it, you come out with 'you're just retaliating' crapola.

[Crumb]

It wasn't a false accusation. For the record I was only going by my recollection, but I still stand by my assessment that you were gunning for Sun with little reason to suspect him over mick. Though apparently you did mention you suspected him too. Your defense seems rather genuine, which leaves me much less suspicious.

I agree with you on the name claim probably not being that useful. Which is a shame because I would hope that my name could prove my innocence.

unvote:slim

So my next suspect is mick, with my next two still being slim and capp. I'm running out of time but I will be back, hopefully before nightfall.

vote: mick

[wei yau]

Originally Posted by slimshady2357

...and wei looks a little less scummy after more participation. Although his use of 'dogged FOS'ing' in regards to my 2 posts about him being a little scummy seems over the top to me.

I did take pains to say "dogged attempts at lightly FOS'ng me". Eh, it was a poor attempt at humor.

Just to clarify for the record, at no point did I truly think that slim was gunning hard for me or anything like that.

[wei yau]

I don't think I'll be back before Nightfall, so I need to make a vote. I'm backing off of Sun, as the Sun-bandwagon had enough players to make me think that at least some were scum. And I don't want to lynch someone that the scum want lynched.

Of course, this leaves me with the same suspect list as Crumb's.

Although, I'm not leaning towards mick as his argument with Sun is likely just a distraction caused by two stubborn personalities.

This leaves me with slim and capp. Unfortunately, I think they are both town.

And there's something about Crumb that bothers me, it's this, I think:

Originally Posted by Crumb

I agree with you on the name claim probably not being that useful. Which is a shame because I would hope that my name could prove my innocence.

All the talk about name claim to date has been whether or not it's useful to hunt scum or if the scum can use it to ID power townies. Crumb's the first to mention the name claim as a tool to prove innocence. Which is weird, since he's been pretty much cleared by everyone (until his recent exchange with slim).

This bothers me enough to vote: Crumb

[ravenscape]

Looks like

Crumb - 2 votes (slimshady, wei yau)
Sun Tsu - 2 votes (mickthinks, cappuccino)
mickthinks - 3 votes (crumb, ravenscape, Sun Tzu)

Right now, Crumb's mayoral vote doesn't break a tie.

Someone want to confirm my count?

I'm still on the fence. People have made some strong arguments against Crumb, which I'm weighing against my initial hunch that he is town.

[Crumb]

Well I am town, so I hope you folks don't lynch me for real. I am thinking you are innocent wei, but if I get lynched at the last minute you would join slim for this little maneuver.

Yes, the ultimate goal of a name claim would be to find the scum. I guess I was feeling a bit defensive there when I said that. Slim had me worried and now I am more worried with you piling on. I was over sensitive and I see how that is suspicious.

[ravenscape]

Unvote. Vote Crumb

I have struggled with how to play today, based on info I have. Above all, I want to prevent another lynching of a villager, because so far, we’ve only eliminated one scum. So, I’ve decided to lay my cards on the table. It may get me lynched, but I hope town will look carefully at the votes I posted in post #269, as well as what happens from the time I make this post until nightfall.

Please pay particular attention to the bold portions that follow.

I wrote the rest of this note out in advance on Thursday in case it appears I’ll be lynched while having information about scum that is important to town. I’ve concluded that even if I’m not in danger of lynching at this point, if I change my vote, I will be. So, I’ll give town information about me that scum already have, in case it may be of use, as well as my reasons for voting for Crumb.

After day 2, I was given the opportunity to do a one-time read of another player. I chose someone, exchanged some role information with him, and later asked him for his name.

First, my own information. I am Beric Dondarrion, and I am the town’s vigilante. I killed The Tick during nightfall 2. During nightfall 1, I didn’t make a kill because I had no clear idea who might be scum.

Now, the information about the person I read. He read as not evil, so I contacted him. He said that if he’s night-killed, the person who kills him will be face-scarred and unable to speak during the next game day. After sharing some role information and suspicions about who might be scum, I finally had the presence of mind to ask his role name.

He said his role name is Sandor Clegane. He is Crumbs. And I believe that despite the “not evil” initial read, he is scum and loyal to Lannister. Here’s why:

From Wikipedia:

Sandor Clegane is the younger brother of Gregor Clegane and a retainer to House Lannister. He is nicknamed "The Hound," in part because his family arms feature three dogs, and in part for his savage nature and unquestioning obedience to his masters. He regularly wears a distinctive helm in the shape of a snarling dog's head. He is considered one of the most dangerous fighters in Westeros, though he frequently drinks himself into stupors. As a child, Sandor received gruesome facial burns when Gregor shoved his face into a brazier. He now has a phobia of fire, and loathes his brother, Gregor Clegane, and the hypocrisy of knighthood in general.
Sandor acted for a time as bodyguard and servant of Joffrey Baratheon, who regularly called him "Dog". He won the Hand's Tourney after saving Loras Tyrell from Gregor's wrath. While drunk off his winnings, Sandor became enamored with Sansa Stark, but also mocked her for her polished manners, calling her a "little bird" who chirps on command. Sandor was eventually named to the Kingsguard, despite refusing to become a knight, and in this capacity he was often assigned to watch over Sansa. Despite his loyalty to Joffrey, he strategically defended her from Joffrey's wrath several times, and was the only member of the Kingsguard who was never commanded to beat her. He fought heroically during the Battle of the Blackwater, but eventually deserted after refusing to return to the flame-choked battlefield. Before fleeing, he found Sansa Stark. He offered to take her with him, but instead settled on a song.

As a vagabond, he was arrested by the Brotherhood without Banners, which also had Arya Stark in its custody. The Brotherhood put Sandor on trial for Lannister atrocities - Arya in particular hated Sandor because he once killed a friend of hers. He chose trial by combat, facing the Brotherhood's leader Beric Dondarrion. Beric fought with a flaming blade, but Sandor managed to defeat him despite his fear of fire. The Brotherhood stripped him of almost all his possessions, but set him free. Sandor returned to the Brotherhood to get his tourney winnings back, but kidnapped Arya instead, with the intention of ransoming her off to one of her relatives. He took her to meet her brother Robb Stark at the Twins, but arrived during the Red Wedding massacre. Sandor stole Arya off again in the hopes of ransoming her off to another family member. At a roadside inn, they ran afoul of three of Gregor's men and Sandor was seriously injured in the ensuing fight. After his wounds became infected he was no longer able to confine Arya. Still hating him for killing her friend, Arya abandoned him, refusing even to grant him the mercy of a quick death.

Sandor's fate becomes uncertain after this point. The head of a nearby monastery claimed to have buried the "Hound" after encountering him dying in the woods. He also stabled Sandor's warhorse, Stranger, at the monastery. However, there are hints in the passages that suggest that Sandor may still be alive, and has joined the monastery. Meanwhile, a deserter from the Brave Companions, Rorge, recovered Sandor's helm from his gravesite and assumed his identity during a brutal spree of banditry. Rorge was later killed by Brienne of Tarth and the helm was then taken by Lem Lemoncloak, a member of the Brotherhood without Banners.

I was skeptical that this role was not scum, and fished for info from Bey. In Bey’s reply to my questions, he said he’d made a mistake and Sandor Clegane is evil.

So, I assume that Sandor Clegane is the Don in this game and reads as town.

From the excerpt the GM posted to recap the night’s events, Gregor Clegane (Sandor’s older brother) killed trillian.

If I am not lynched, you can guess my night kill plans. I’m not sure of success because in the wiki excerpt above, Sandor Clegane defeated Beric Dondarrion. And, if Crumb was truthful about a nightkiller being scarred and unable to speak for a day, then I will not be able to post at all in Day 4. If I am lynched, at least part of my story will be confirmed when my name is revealed. Do with this what serves you best, fellow townsfolk. Sorry I was too trusting of my read opportunity.

[Crumb]

You got a innocent read on me but you are going to vote to lynch me!!!!

I am the one who told you I suspected The Tick! Why would I say that in private if I was on his side?

Bey did not tell you I was evil. He told you he MADE A MISTAKE. If I read as town he would have been careful to not say that, but would have not given you any other details.

thankfully if no one else votes it will still be mickthinks, but please no one put the hammer on me. I am innocent and RAVENSCAPE KNOWS IT and just told you.

[ravenscape]

No, Bey's reply to my questions is that he made a mistake and you are evil.

As for The Tick, I came to that conclusion on my own, and it was an obvious call after day 2.

If you're not evil, then Bey is GMing a very strange game indeed.

[wei yau]

Interesting turn of events. Still gonna keep my vote on Crumb, as ravenscape spins a good tale. And Crumb's defense seems a bit weak.

Although, it is the type of analysis that I would not have expected from a self-professed neophyte.

[ravenscape]

Maybe a non-neophyte would have a clue whether cards on the table at this point was really a good idea.