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  #2026  
Old 04-06-2021, 11:53 PM
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Default Re: Winnie the Flu


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  #2027  
Old 04-08-2021, 03:21 AM
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Default Re: Winnie the Flu

I done been jabbed. J&J, so one and done. Also thanks to the efforts of our in-house vaccine injury coordinator. :pimpbrezhnev:
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  #2028  
Old 04-08-2021, 03:31 AM
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Default Re: Winnie the Flu

:cool: You are the first person I know to manage to get the J&J! We haven't gotten many doses of it around here, and I think a lot of them are going to rural areas where people have to drive farther and are less likely to do 2 doses. I would have preferred the 1 dose for convenience and slightly less likelihood of systemic side effects than post-2nd dose Moderna. Do not pay attention to the Twitter nonsense attempting to differentiate it - you will get robust protection and the same government time-travel nanotechnology.
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  #2029  
Old 04-08-2021, 03:48 AM
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Default Re: Winnie the Flu

My son got his first shot today, despite his severe needle phobia, which is almost assuredly PTSD.

Mabel's son also got his first one the other day. This means that in the next few weeks, our little circle will be fully vaccinated and we'll be able to start doing some cautiously normal things again sort of.

Matlock, TLM, and Mabel's son all have varying degrees of needle phobia, all related to previous traumatic experiences they've had, but they're all getting their shots anyway, and I'm really proud of how brave they are to do that.

(I feel like I need to point out that I'm not being sarcastic. It's seriously hard for all of them, but they did it anyway.)

For Chuck: Mabel and Matlock got Moderna, and the rest of us got Pfizer.
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  #2030  
Old 04-08-2021, 05:28 AM
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  #2031  
Old 04-08-2021, 10:29 AM
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Default Re: Winnie the Flu

Sweden's Pandemic Experiment | The New Yorker

Anders Tegnell:
"Judge me in a year."

Early on, a year ago, I believed that Tegnell had to have information that wasn't apparent to us laypeople (entirely likely) or to other epidemiologists (less likely, but possible, I guess). Then by the summer/autumn it became painfully apparent that he was just wrong. While I understand being wrong, what I cannot forgive him for is continuing to insist that he was right and try to defend his actions still, not when we outside of Sweden could all see how wrong he was. And Swedes - in this case, unfortunately - believe in their government and the experts, which is why this has been so disastrous, they have all followed his advice and so, so many inexplicably still believe in him.

Last year I sporadically would check how the newspapers in Sweden were handling this and how the they were advising people on how to behave and it was such a shock to see it all so downplayed, the main thread was defensiveness of their previous comments and actions. And then they got all snippy when their neighbouring countries started avoiding and excluding Swedes.
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  #2032  
Old 04-08-2021, 11:49 AM
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Default Re: Winnie the Flu

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamilah Hauptmann View Post
Bullshit. For me anyway. I got plenty of colds in the last 12 months.
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  #2033  
Old 04-08-2021, 11:58 AM
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Default Re: Winnie the Flu

I haven't. Must be the English climate.


But my assumption was not "masks work", but "solitary confinement works".
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  #2034  
Old 04-08-2021, 12:27 PM
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Default Re: Winnie the Flu

I haven't been in contact with anyone except my cat ... so maybe I've been getting cat flu, not colds.
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  #2035  
Old 04-08-2021, 01:08 PM
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Default Re: Winnie the Flu

Or allergies. Or swamp gas.
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  #2036  
Old 04-08-2021, 07:34 PM
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Default Re: Winnie the Flu

What You Can and Can't Do Once You're Fully Vaccinated
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  #2037  
Old 04-09-2021, 01:29 AM
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Default Re: Winnie the Flu

Derek Draper returns home after over a year in intensive care recovering from Covid | Derek Draper | The Guardian
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  #2038  
Old 04-09-2021, 07:47 AM
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Default Re: Winnie the Flu

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miisa View Post

“It was just this development we did not want to see,” Björn Eriksson, Stockholm’s director of health and medical care, said during a press conference
.

This is the one thing we didn't want to happen!

Sweden gets a lot of flak, but I don't think it's all deserved. They made some mistakes, and did a lot worse than some places, and better than others. Not unlike most of the world.

Comparisons are hard. I do hope the data is useful.
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  #2039  
Old 04-10-2021, 03:31 PM
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Default Re: Winnie the Flu

I was reading this story about a ref who collapsed during a game during the NCAA men’s basketball tournament.

Quote:

Smith was admitted into Methodist and put on blood thinners. Two days later, clot gone, he was discharged. Where did it come from? Nobody can say. Smith tested positive for the coronavirus in August, but doctors can’t say whether there’s a correlation between COVID-19 and his blood clot.

We know that clots are a complication of covid-19.

Blood clots do happen, but it makes me wonder about long term effects of covid.

NCAA Tournament ref Bert Smith's collapse during game saved his life
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  #2040  
Old 04-10-2021, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragar View Post
Sweden gets a lot of flak, but I don't think it's all deserved. They made some mistakes, and did a lot worse than some places, and better than others. Not unlike most of the world.

Comparisons are hard. I do hope the data is useful.
Comparisons are hard, but I think you are being too kind to Sweden. It did much worse than the set of countries that it’s regularly compared to.

Literally an order of magnitude more deaths than Finland.

An order of magnitude.

8 times the deaths of Norway

4 times the deaths of Denmark.

(Percapita)

There are counties doing worse than Sweden(like the US), but there aren’t many developed countries with universal health care doing much worse than Sweden.

Also Sweden has I think the highest percentage of single generation households in Europe if I recall correctly.

Quote:

In Sweden it’s a different story. The most common age to leave home is between 18 and 19, compared to the EU average of 26, according to Eurostat figures. And a significant proportion of these young Swedes aren’t moving into cramped house shares or student dorms. They are living alone.

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article...des-live-alone


Spread among multigenerational households is one of the things that kept covid going here in California.

What criticisms do you see of Sweden that are unwarranted?
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  #2041  
Old 04-10-2021, 03:57 PM
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Default Re: Winnie the Flu

"... but doctors can’t say whether there’s a correlation between COVID-19 and his blood clot."


:argh:


Of course doctors can say there is no correlation between a single incidence of a clot in a single case of Covid, because fucking correlation

What can't be said is whether the Covid caused the clot.

Because #notallbloodclots
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  #2042  
Old 04-10-2021, 05:27 PM
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Is this the thread to mention the Mor-Man and I were vaccinated on our Anniversary 3 weeks ago. Romantic date snaking our way through a massive line onto an ice rink - jabbed at centre ice.
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  #2043  
Old 04-10-2021, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Limoncello View Post
Is this the thread to mention the Mor-Man and I were vaccinated on our Anniversary 3 weeks ago. Romantic date snaking our way through a massive line onto an ice rink - jabbed at centre ice.
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  #2044  
Old 04-10-2021, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beyelzu View Post
There are counties doing worse than Sweden(like the US), but there aren’t many developed countries with universal health care doing much worse than Sweden.

Also Sweden has I think the highest percentage of single generation households in Europe if I recall correctly.
Also, as a rule, people on the Nordics are relatively socially distant as a culture trait, which the Swedes were hoping on its own would save them from the worst effects, and has probably helped at least somewhat compared to cultures where it comes less naturally. But the attempt at maintaining normalcy by keeping bars, restaurants and public transport open for so long, as well as discouraging mask use and letting people visit care homes had a much bigger effect than they had imagined.
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  #2045  
Old 04-10-2021, 06:50 PM
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Default Re: Winnie the Flu

Discouraging mask use is so frustrating because it’s so easy for how effective it is and that the vast majority of issues around it are mental not physical.

I really credit SF’s asian population for making masks when you’re sick an occasional sight long before Covid, and being the first to put them on a bit over a year ago, as one of the reasons it didn’t hit us harder.
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  #2046  
Old 04-10-2021, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Limoncello View Post
Is this the thread to mention the Mor-Man and I were vaccinated on our Anniversary 3 weeks ago. Romantic date snaking our way through a massive line onto an ice rink - jabbed at centre ice.
:canada:

Did the person who jabbed you say "sorreh"? Was the person in fact a beaver?
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  #2047  
Old 04-10-2021, 07:34 PM
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She was built more like a Moose and made me put down my Timmies.
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  #2048  
Old 04-11-2021, 07:53 AM
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Default Re: Winnie the Flu

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyelzu View Post
worse than the set of countries that it’s regularly compared to.

Literally an order of magnitude more deaths than Finland.

An order of magnitude.

8 times the deaths of Norway

4 times the deaths of Denmark.

...

There are counties doing worse than Sweden(like the US), but there aren’t many developed countries with universal health care doing much worse than Sweden.

What criticisms do you see of Sweden that are unwarranted?
Yes, but those countries had by far and above the best results in Europe - by far. UK, France, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Poland all did worse than Sweden. And Germany, Ireland, Netherlands and plenty of other wealthy countries did pretty comparably.

As for what's unfair, I think there's a pretty big difference between what the media reported about Sweden's rules and what actually happened. It wasn't like they ignored the crisis - people did stay home, gatherings were reduced, etc. I'm not at all convinced the additional lockdown policies e.g. in the UK (limiting outdoor exercise in some places!) would really have made a difference.

Where the article nails it is pointing out that preventing it getting into care homes was the big policy failure. The death rate rockets up amongst the frail and elderly, and that seems to be the difference between countries that limited deaths and those that didn't.

Overall Sweden looks to be like a typical European country in terms of outcome, and I've no reason to think it's an atypical county in terms of its starting position. The typical European country did awfully. There's plenty of criticisms of Sweden to be made, but they apply similarly to most European (and most developed) countries.
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  #2049  
Old 04-11-2021, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Yes, but those countries had by far and above the best results in Europe - by far. UK, France, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Poland all did worse than Sweden.
Yes, the other scandinavian countries that had lockdowns and were most similar to Sweden did by far the best. I wonder how Sweden would have done with better policy.

Also, Sweden has 40 percent more deaths than the countries you list as doing about as well. That's a pretty big difference.



Quote:
As for what's unfair, I think there's a pretty big difference between what the media reported about Sweden's rules and what actually happened. It wasn't like they ignored the crisis - people did stay home, gatherings were reduced, etc. I'm not at all convinced the additional lockdown policies e.g. in the UK (limiting outdoor exercise in some places!) would really have made a difference.
Their policy was bad. They discouraged mask use for fucks sake. I also don't think people being cautious makes the policy good. Plenty of US states have shit policy but you find that enough people acting responsibly can mitigate. That doesn't make the policy good though.

I do think that news media is overly reductionist and people often gloss over some steps that Sweden did take.


Quote:
Where the article nails it is pointing out that preventing it getting into care homes was the big policy failure. The death rate rockets up amongst the frail and elderly, and that seems to be the difference between countries that limited deaths and those that didn't.

again, you are too kind. The idea that you can just close off one segment of society was foolish to begin with. Which epidemiologists said.

I just cant stress enough that most experts didn't agree with sweden's approach.

Quote:
I've no reason to think it's an atypical county in terms of its starting position.
sure if you ignore their structural advantages they don't have any. It would be weird though if they had say the highest percentage of single family households in europe and you were responding to a post that said that.

I am beginning to suspect we will have to agree to disagree on this.
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  #2050  
Old 04-11-2021, 10:42 AM
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I don't think 40% differences are meaningful in crises involving exponentials, though. Most European countries had around 1000 deaths per million, and I'm not convinced factor of two differences either side are at all meaningful enough to infer things about policy differences. (Contrast with Korea, NZ, China, Australia...)

As for their policy being bad - yes, it was. But it wasn't exceptionally bad. Other European countries (and developed countries) had similarly bad policies. The UK was discouraging masks for a long time too, for instance.

Does percentage of single family households matter? Probably. What's the effect size? I've no data on that, so I don't disagree with the assertion, just the weight of its implication.
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