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Old 01-07-2021, 10:55 AM
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Default Left, Right, and Centre

I've been meaning to start a thread to lay out some ideas I have about extremism, centrism, and socialism, and maybe engender a discussion and sharing of ideas. Last night's shennannigins and Obama's response provide the spur.

Quote:
Originally posted by Barack Obama
History will rightly remember today’s violence at the Capitol, incited by a sitting president who has continued to baselessly lie about the outcome of a lawful election, as a moment of great dishonor and shame for our nation. But we’d be kidding ourselves if we treated it as a total surprise.

For two months now, a political party and its accompanying media ecosystem has too often been unwilling to tell their followers the truth — that this was not a particularly close election and that President-Elect Biden will be inaugurated on January 20. Their fantasy narrative has spiraled further and further from reality, and it builds upon years of sown resentments. Now we’re seeing the consequences, whipped up into a violent crescendo.

Right now, Republican leaders have a choice made clear in the desecrated chambers of democracy. They can continue down this road and keep stoking the raging fires. Or they can choose reality and take the first steps toward extinguishing the flames. They can choose America.

I’ve been heartened to see many members of the President’s party speak up forcefully today. Their voices add to the examples of Republican state and local election officials in states like Georgia who’ve refused to be intimidated and have discharged their duties honorably. We need more leaders like these — right now and in the days, weeks, and months ahead as President-Elect Biden works to restore a common purpose to our politics. It’s up to all of us as Americans, regardless of party, to support him in that goal.
Note particularly how Obama expresses approval for some Republicans. And it's not just praise; Obama says we need them. That is not a message that will go down well with many on the left. It strikes me as fundamentally centrist.

But though I have found myself impelled further and ever further left by my observations and experience of the world I am trying to live in, and now would be considered by most and certainly identify myself as socialist, I think Obama is right. I am, therefore, at least in this sense, a centrist.
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Last edited by mickthinks; 01-07-2021 at 01:09 PM.
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  #2  
Old 01-07-2021, 12:16 PM
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Default Re: Left, Right, and Centre

I think I am in general agreement.

And I am thinking of a picture something like this ...

:gnash::blame: ------------------------------- :chat: :chat: :chat: :chat: :chat: ------------------------------- :blame: (mirrored):gnash:
extreme left ------------------------------- left wing centre left centre centre right right wing ------------------------------- extreme right

The groups in the middle mostly talk to themselves but are capable of sane discussion. The lunatics at the right fringe look left and just see socialists and commies and neither can nor want to see the difference. The lunatics at the left fringe look right and just see capitalist psychopaths.

Meanwhile it's a stretchy hyperbolic line and everyone thinks they are close to the centre, and differences with their immediate neighbours are significant and differences with anyone further off are unbridgeable.
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Old 01-07-2021, 01:23 PM
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Default Re: Left, Right, and Centre

I feel I should try to head off one potential misreading of my endorsement of Obama's "need". I don't know whether Obama was intending to welcome these particular Republicans into the democratic fold, but that is certainly not my meaning. I think pretty much all of them—objectors and conceders alike—should be thrown out of politics for their 4 years of consorting and enablement.

I mean; we need leadership like that shown by some of them, in such great contrast to the others, in recent days.
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Old 01-07-2021, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: Left, Right, and Centre

Quote:
Originally Posted by mickthinks View Post
I think pretty much all of them—objectors and conceders alike—should be thrown out of politics for their 4 years of consorting and enablement.
:behead:
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  #5  
Old 01-14-2021, 03:24 PM
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Default Re: Left, Right, and Centre

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
I think I am in general agreement.

And I am thinking of a picture something like this ...

:gnash::blame: ------------------------------- :chat: :chat: :chat: :chat: :chat: ------------------------------- :blame: (mirrored):gnash:
extreme left ------------------------------- left wing centre left centre centre right right wing ------------------------------- extreme right

The groups in the middle mostly talk to themselves but are capable of sane discussion. The lunatics at the right fringe look left and just see socialists and commies and neither can nor want to see the difference. The lunatics at the left fringe look right and just see capitalist psychopaths.

Meanwhile it's a stretchy hyperbolic line and everyone thinks they are close to the centre, and differences with their immediate neighbours are significant and differences with anyone further off are unbridgeable.
I'm not going to assume they were idiots, ignorant, or misled. We had some idea what to expect: So did they.

The center is the group which looked at Agent Orange and thought: "At least he wants to hurt the correct people." And continued to support, and support, and support him for four long years. It's like trying to win an argument with a toothache.

The underlying issues of North American drug abuse, unemployment, and poverty have to be addressed before they'll be willing to talk. Otherwise they'll take their ball and go home. Again.
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Old 01-14-2021, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Corona688 View Post
The underlying issues of North American drug abuse, unemployment, and poverty have to be addressed before they'll be willing to talk. Otherwise they'll take their ball and go home. Again.
And the damned thing is, Obama did more than Trump there by a mile, casually, without fanfare.
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