Health Care Reform Dead

[Garnet]

My main concern about the requirement to obtain health insurance is how it will be implemented. Just requiring people to have it, saying it's affordable (who will define affordable???) and giving tax breaks ain't gonna cut it.

[lisarea]

Hey, I just remembered I had a kind of random question for anyone watching the speech last night: Was Grover Norquist there? I swear I saw him a couple of times looking all constipated.

Am I just crazy?

[Watser?]

Are those things mutually exclusive?

[lisarea]

Good point. Let me rephrase. Was Grover Norquist there last night, or was my seeing him the result of a specific pathology in which I see phantom architects of sociopathy?

[Garnet]

Jesus Fucking Christ!

Baucus Unveils $856 Billion Health-Care Legislation - WSJ.com

The measure would broaden eligibility for Medicaid, the existing federal-state health program for the poor, and it would create a new national insurance exchange, where individuals and small businesses can purchase insurance. Individuals and families would be required to purchase insurance and would face penalties ranging from $750 to $3,800 for not complying.

No public option.

Under the bill, the subsidies – in the form of a refundable tax credit -- would flow to individuals and families with incomes up to 300% of the federal poverty level. For those with incomes from 300% to 400% of the poverty level, the bill would cap annual insurance premiums at 13% of income. Liberal critics say that level is too large and would expose middle-income families to big new expenses.

Fuckwits, if you are having trouble making ends meet a fucking tax credit isn't going to help! You need a way to help them pay for insurance premiums as they come due. Oh and 13% of income is an acceptable cap? What the fuck?

Among other things, the bill would levy a new 35% excise tax on high-dollar insurance plans. The tax would fall on insurers offering plans with values above $8,000 for individuals and $21,000 for families. The premium tax would take effect in 2013 and raise $215 billion over 10 years, according to a preliminary estimate from the Joint Committee on Taxation.

What the hell does "value above" in this context even mean? If a company or an individual pays more than the amounts listed in premiums then there's a 35% tax on what they pay? Am I reading this wrong? And 35%? What? I don't get this one at all. What is it even supposed to do?

[Sock Puppet]

Ah, so health care reform isn't dead. It has risen from its grave as an undead abomination, bent on devouring the bleeding, exhausted health care as it flees in terror.

[Adam]

Rockefeller says he won't support the Baucus bill, so that's something.

[Garnet]

Bob Cesca: With a Health Care Plan This Insane, Who Needs Wingnuts?

First, Baucus' entire goal was to construct a bipartisan plan. Mission accomplished. Insofar as both parties hate it. Just as we predicted, Baucus tailored his plan to appeal to the Republicans who, as it turns out, don't support the plan anyway. For example, one of his concessions to the Republicans was tort reform language which not only won't work, but has also failed to bring in any Republicans (bad policy -- bad politics). Meanwhile, the bill is so diluted and bad that roughly half of the Democrats on the Finance Committee appear to be opposed to it. Good job, senator!

[Garnet]

Oregan Senator Ron Wyden:

Now, a family earning three times the poverty level — $66,150 for a family of four — would have to pay up to 13 percent of their income for health insurance. And that’s just the premiums — not counting deductibles, co-payments and out-of-pocket expenses.

“I don’t know very many working-class families who you can look in the eyes and say: ‘Do you have that kind of money in your checking account?’ — because they don’t,” Wyden told me…

Those without coverage would face a fine of as much as $3,800, unless costs exceeded 10 percent of their income, in which case they would be given an “affordability exemption.” In other words, they wouldn’t have insurance, but at least they wouldn’t be penalized for it.

If the Baucus proposal passes, he said, “They’re going to say, ‘Huh? Health-care security means I pay a whole lot more than I’m paying today or I get to be exempt from it, or I pay a penalty?’ They’re not going to say that meets the definition of health-care security.”

And it starts all over | Marketplace Scratch Pad | Marketplace from American Public Media

[Qingdai]

Yes, that bill sounds terrible.

I have the feeling we are going to end up with something that maximizes the amount of money paid to health insurance companies, without any real increase in access to health care.

And if the Republicans are hell bent on not voting on health care reform no matter if it mandates they get willing male pages to wash their balls nightly, why are the Democrats pushing for bipartisan support exactly?

[erimir]

Originally Posted by Qingdai

And if the Republicans are hell bent on not voting on health care reform no matter if it mandates they get willing male pages to wash their balls nightly, why are the Democrats pushing for bipartisan support exactly?

They're worried that the GOP will say that the Dems shoved it down their and America's throats. Which is a stupid worry - they're going to say that to rile up their base no matter what the Dems pass. The stupid teabaggers will feel that it's been shoved down their throats no matter what - they feel that Obama was shoved down their throats by a fair election anyway.

The Dems should be concentrating on making the best bill they can and then shoving it down the GOP's throat. And then, assuming it succeeds, maybe the GOP won't be willing to criticize it (since it'll be effective and popular). And if they do criticize it, the Dems will get to simply retort "Yeah, we did shove it down your throats... and you loved it!"

[Dingfod]

I'm not liking it much. What if I was a single guy, semi-retired, not yet 65, making $30-35,000 a year between my retirement checks and part time jobs? I don't think I will be able to afford health insurance with my preexisting conditions (spinal surgery and high blood pressure and a family history of dying of sudden cardiac arrest) even if they couldn't exclude me or cancel me. I guess I better get ready to pony up the penalty money.

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by Dingfod

I'm not liking it much. What if I was a single guy, semi-retired, not yet 65, making $30-35,000 a year between my retirement checks and part time jobs? I don't think I will be able to afford health insurance with my preexisting conditions (spinal surgery and high blood pressure and a family history of dying of sudden cardiac arrest) even if they couldn't exclude me or cancel me. I guess I better get ready to pony up the penalty money.

95% of Americans will not have their taxes increased.

Now fines and fees are a different story!

[Anastasia Beaverhausen]

And then the GOP will crow about how they always supported the bill. Just like they supported the Civil Rights Act and the Clean Water Act.

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by Cynical-Chick

And then the GOP will crow about how they always supported the bill. Just like they supported the Civil Rights Act and the Clean Water Act.

Civil Rights Act of 1964 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



By party

The original House version:[9]

* Democratic Party: 152-96 (61%-39%)
* Republican Party: 138-34 (80%-20%)

The Senate version:[9]

* Democratic Party: 46-21 (69%-31%)
* Republican Party: 27-6 (82%-18%)

The Senate version, voted on by the House:[9]

* Democratic Party: 153-91 (63%-37%)
* Republican Party: 136-35 (80%-20%)

[Dingfod]

Opposition to the Civil Rights Act of 1964 fell mostly on geographic lines at the time, with Southerners being against it, and almost everyone else for it. Most of the good ol' boy Southern Democrats became Republicans. The Grand Old Party of Lincoln has been taken over by them in the last 40 years. This is not your father's Oldsmobile Republican party.

[Garnet]

And Medicare.

[godfry n. glad]

Of course, since Representative Wilson shouted on the floor of the House, and although he has since verbalized regrets, his actions clearly indicate that he is not apologetic at all.

This opens the floor to any and all member shouting vituperative invective at speakers in the House. "Liar!" is merely a beginning. When both sides (or, more accurately, all sides) get cranked up on this, we can bring all legislation to a complete standstill....which is probably what the Repugnantcans want.

I think that when Repugnantcans are speaking that not only would "Liar!" work well, along with "Cheater!", "Faggot!", "Hypocrite!", "Credit Risk!", "Murderer of American Boys!", "Troglodyte!" and "Charge and Spend!" All followers of Dick Cheney should be referred to as "Dickheads".

This should all make legislation in the American legislative chambers a lot more interesting.

[Garnet]

David Vines: Hope for a Compromise Is Dead

If Republicans are not willing to accept even this watered-down bill as a compromise, I think it is safe to say that the Republicans will never, under any circumstances, support any Democrat-sponsored health care bill no matter what the plan calls for. At this point, I'm starting to think President Obama could propose a "health care" bill that was actually an extension of the Bush tax-cuts, along with a plan to give every American a free gun, and the Republicans would still oppose it.

If the President does not get the message now that Republican opposition to the Baucus Plan means they will not vote for any kind of health care bill, he never will. President Obama needs to realize that he's going to have to forgo this attempt at bipartisanship if he ever intends to get a functional health care bill passed. For his sake, and with 2010 election season getting closer each passing day, this epiphany had better hit him sooner rather than later.

[lisarea]

The only people swayed by that "compromise" bullshit are idiots faking their way through life by pretending to be moderates on everything they can't be fucked to understand. And the more the left acquiesces to the increasingly psychopathic right, the more the middle shifts to the right.

The wingnuts sure as hell aren't watering down their rhetoric. They're actually getting worse. All the watering down is coming from the other side.

These wimps need to start doing the stuff they were elected to do, and stop pandering to some ignorant, histrionic minority.

[Jug Pilot]

So if the republicans will reject everything, screw them.

They should just bring out the "Medicare for all" so the American people win. That's worth fighting for and squeaking by, not some watered down bi-partisan make big insurance more money while not providing any reform crap.

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by Jug Pilot

So if the republicans will reject everything, screw them.

They should just bring out the "Medicare for all" so the American people win. That's worth fighting for and squeaking by, not some watered down bi-partisan make big insurance more money while not providing any reform crap.

Could You Die Faster? Medicare’s Broke. - CBS MoneyWatch.com

The just-released Social Security trustees report says that Medicare will be spending more than it brings in this year. In less than a decade, the system will have run through all of its savings and be incapable of paying bills.

When the systems stop running surpluses — that’s now — it’s also bad for taxpayers because the government has borrowed all the money out of the so-called “trust fund” to finance current operations. When those I.O.U. have to be repaid, there is less money for roads, parks, the military and every other service the government provides.

If Medicare can not pay for itself, how do you expect to pay for everyone else in addition?

[1Samuel8]

Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME

If Medicare can not pay for itself, how do you expect to pay for everyone else in addition?

Easy: print money.

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by 1Samuel8

Easy: print money.

Now what does that do to the value of the money; which is a reflection of your past labor, that people have in savings?

What does that do to the cost of everything in the economy?

[LadyShea]

I wrote to the DNC and begged them to get the party to just fucking get a bill voted on and quit messing around trying to get the loons on board.