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  #10051  
Old 06-15-2012, 08:28 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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I already addressed Angakuk's question about choices that are equal in value. I don't think he understood that this makes no difference.
And I am pretty sure that peacegirl didn't understand why it does make a difference.

I would like to point out that peacegirl's ability to recall and refer to that particular conversation is further evidence that her memory failures are mostly a matter of convenience.
Actually, Lessans stated emphatically that anything done by others or to others doesn't even apply. You have created something to argue about that has nothing to do with these principles Angakuk, and because of this you refuse to listen with a sickening self-righteous attitude. Who are you to come off telling other people that you read the book? You're a liar and you know it. You have now committed yourself to rejecting this book or else be embarrassed. You are not a good representative of God himself. Am I being blasphemis? Oh well, I will state my truth knowing that Lessans was right all along. What do you have say to defend yourself Angakuk? This is so disturbing because you're now turning into a fraud, in God's name. How sick is that?
Funny, pretending to understand, act for, communicate with an infinite all knowing being and claiming or even pretending that the bible in someway reflects the mind and will of that being should be fraud enough for anybody.
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  #10052  
Old 06-15-2012, 09:49 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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I would like to point out that peacegirl's ability to recall and refer to that particular conversation is further evidence that her memory failures are mostly a matter of convenience.

And this along with her willfull ignorance and other atributes that have been repetedly pointed out, would seem to lead away from mental illness, to the conclusion that she is only in it for the money. Lessans motivations, on the other hand are less discernible. If sales were sucessful he had no need of money, though it is possible that he just wanted more, and his Billard Championship gave him a claim to fame. That would leave the very real possibility that it was just a colossal joke.
After ten years of this nonsense only a mentally ill person would think there is money to be made.

Yes but it was lessans's joke, it seems that Peacegirl is now the butt of that joke, and no-one else finds it funny.
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  #10053  
Old 06-15-2012, 10:19 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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I would like to point out that peacegirl's ability to recall and refer to that particular conversation is further evidence that her memory failures are mostly a matter of convenience.

And this along with her willfull ignorance and other atributes that have been repetedly pointed out, would seem to lead away from mental illness, to the conclusion that she is only in it for the money. Lessans motivations, on the other hand are less discernible. If sales were sucessful he had no need of money, though it is possible that he just wanted more, and his Billard Championship gave him a claim to fame. That would leave the very real possibility that it was just a colossal joke.
After ten years of this nonsense only a mentally ill person would think there is money to be made.

Yes but it was lessans's joke, it seems that Peacegirl is now the butt of that joke, and no-one else finds it funny.
Maybe it was funny 5 or 8 years ago, by now it's just tragic.
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  #10054  
Old 06-15-2012, 10:24 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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I already addressed Angakuk's question about choices that are equal in value. I don't think he understood that this makes no difference.
And I am pretty sure that peacegirl didn't understand why it does make a difference.

I would like to point out that peacegirl's ability to recall and refer to that particular conversation is further evidence that her memory failures are mostly a matter of convenience.
Actually, Lessans stated emphatically that anything done by others or to others doesn't even apply. You have created something to argue about that has nothing to do with these principles Angakuk, and because of this you refuse to listen with a sickening self-righteous attitude. Who are you to come off telling other people that you read the book? You're a liar and you know it. You have now committed yourself to rejecting this book or else be embarrassed. You are not a good representative of God himself. Am I being blasphemis? Oh well, I will state my truth knowing that Lessans was right all along. What do you have say to defend yourself Angakuk? This is so disturbing because you're now turning into a fraud, in God's name. How sick is that?
Funny, pretending to understand, act for, communicate with an infinite all knowing being and claiming or even pretending that the bible in someway reflects the mind and will of that being should be fraud enough for anybody.
The Bible is a mythopoetic construction and Agakuk is interpreting it for a body of believers. This seems to be a perfectly valid pursuit, and in the final analysis perhaps more socially useful than "shut up and calculate" which brought us the power to kill everyone on earth with nuclear weapons and the charms of species die-off due to global warming. Knowledge of soulless mathematical descriptions without the understanding of what they signify or the wisdom to apply them appropriately may lead to mass destruction. Not every useful. I'd even call it a kind of fraud.
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  #10055  
Old 06-15-2012, 10:52 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

For a quarter I'll even interpret it for non-believers.
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  #10056  
Old 06-15-2012, 11:35 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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I already addressed Angakuk's question about choices that are equal in value. I don't think he understood that this makes no difference.
And I am pretty sure that peacegirl didn't understand why it does make a difference.

I would like to point out that peacegirl's ability to recall and refer to that particular conversation is further evidence that her memory failures are mostly a matter of convenience.
Actually, Lessans stated emphatically that anything done by others or to others doesn't even apply. You have created something to argue about that has nothing to do with these principles Angakuk, and because of this you refuse to listen with a sickening self-righteous attitude. Who are you to come off telling other people that you read the book? You're a liar and you know it. You have now committed yourself to rejecting this book or else be embarrassed. You are not a good representative of God himself. Am I being blasphemis? Oh well, I will state my truth knowing that Lessans was right all along. What do you have say to defend yourself Angakuk? This is so disturbing because you're now turning into a fraud, in God's name. How sick is that?
Funny, pretending to understand, act for, communicate with an infinite all knowing being and claiming or even pretending that the bible in someway reflects the mind and will of that being should be fraud enough for anybody.
The Bible is a mythopoetic construction and Agakuk is interpreting it for a body of believers. This seems to be a perfectly valid pursuit, and in the final analysis perhaps more socially useful than "shut up and calculate" which brought us the power to kill everyone on earth with nuclear weapons and the charms of species die-off due to global warming. Knowledge of soulless mathematical descriptions without the understanding of what they signify or the wisdom to apply them appropriately may lead to mass destruction. Not every useful. I'd even call it a kind of fraud.
How about that! I have a groupie.
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  #10057  
Old 06-15-2012, 11:46 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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For a quarter I'll even interpret it for non-believers.

Isn't that over-charging for something thats supposed to be free?
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  #10058  
Old 06-15-2012, 11:47 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

'Those who know, don't charge, - those who charge, don't know.'
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  #10059  
Old 06-16-2012, 04:12 AM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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How about that! I have a groupie.
How did you come to that weird conclusion? Via math? :scratch:
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  #10060  
Old 06-16-2012, 04:36 AM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

New math, 1 + 1 = 1.
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  #10061  
Old 06-16-2012, 04:53 AM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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How about that! I have a groupie.
How did you come to that weird conclusion? Via math? :scratch:
Group theory. Or maybe you're just my stalker.
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  #10062  
Old 06-16-2012, 05:08 AM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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How about that! I have a groupie.
How did you come to that weird conclusion? Via math? :scratch:
Group theory. Or maybe you're just my stalker.
Hm. Can you show the maths? Because otherwise, it means nothing, as you know. :popcorn:
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  #10063  
Old 06-16-2012, 05:12 AM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

Oh and while you're at it, show us your maths to explicate "values" and "ethics" and "beauty" and "meaning."

I mean, after all, philosophy is dead -- Hawking said so! -- so a genius like you must have some nice math modeling these concepts, ja?

:lol:
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  #10064  
Old 06-16-2012, 05:23 AM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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Or maybe you're just my stalker.
And you are peacegirl's what now? :popcorn:

:lol:
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  #10065  
Old 06-16-2012, 05:25 AM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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Or maybe you're just my stalker.
And you are peacegirl's what now? :popcorn:

:lol:
I'm the only person to offer to go with her to a doctor. What have you done? Insult her? That appears to be your sole role in life.
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  #10066  
Old 06-16-2012, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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Or maybe you're just my stalker.
And you are peacegirl's what now? :popcorn:

:lol:
I'm the only person to offer to go with her to a doctor. What have you done? Insult her? That appears to be your sole role in life.
LOL, and you haven't?

Unlike you, however, I've contributed a ton of real substance to this thread. I've tried to teach her about relativity theory, the philosophy of time, and modal logic, among other important topics. I've written rather in-depth posts on these and other topics. All you'e done is spend about 700 pages calling her a schizophrenic. Was that a conclusion of "shut up and calculate"?
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  #10067  
Old 06-16-2012, 08:26 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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Or maybe you're just my stalker.
And you are peacegirl's what now? :popcorn:

:lol:
I'm the only person to offer to go with her to a doctor. What have you done? Insult her? That appears to be your sole role in life.
LOL, and you haven't?

Unlike you, however, I've contributed a ton of real substance to this thread. I've tried to teach her about relativity theory, the philosophy of time, and modal logic, among other important topics. I've written rather in-depth posts on these and other topics. All you'e done is spend about 700 pages calling her a schizophrenic. Was that a conclusion of "shut up and calculate"?
And she has learned nothing. For some reason you think you are gonna succeed where others before you have tried over a decade and failed. She is definitely mentally ill, whether it's schizophrenia or not. At least I've tried to get her to get help. I understand that you've been restrained with peacegirl and not released your full jerkatude. You are to be commended for this because with all your study of philosophy it is so difficult for you to be civil.
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  #10068  
Old 06-16-2012, 10:22 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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For a quarter I'll even interpret it for non-believers.
Isn't that over-charging for something thats supposed to be free?
The laborer is worthy of his hire.
Also, you don't muzzel the ox that treads the grain.

I especially like that second one. Not only is it biblical, it even sounds biblical!


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  #10069  
Old 06-17-2012, 01:37 AM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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Directions are extra.
That's how they getcha.
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  #10070  
Old 06-17-2012, 01:48 AM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

When all else fails, read the directions, but does anyone remember where the directions are?
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  #10071  
Old 06-17-2012, 02:51 AM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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Directions are extra.
Sounds like Oracle.
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  #10072  
Old 06-17-2012, 03:28 AM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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Actually, Lessans stated emphatically that anything done by others or to others doesn't even apply.
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I also explained the fact that when Lessans said "nothing can make man do anything against his will," he wasn't referring to what others do to him, because then it's not his will. He did mention this.
If that is the case why couldn't you, through the course of our rather lengthy discussion of this question, provide a single quote from Lessans where he explicitly excluded the application of external force from consideration?

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I explained the fact that two things being the same in preference doesn't change the fact that we are always moving in the direction of greater satisfaction, regardless of which motion we make at any given moment...
No, you did not explain any such fact. You tried (and failed) to argue that this is a fact.
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  #10073  
Old 06-17-2012, 12:45 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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Actually, Lessans stated emphatically that anything done by others or to others doesn't even apply.
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I also explained the fact that when Lessans said "nothing can make man do anything against his will," he wasn't referring to what others do to him, because then it's not his will. He did mention this.
If that is the case why couldn't you, through the course of our rather lengthy discussion of this question, provide a single quote from Lessans where he explicitly excluded the application of external force from consideration?
He mentioned that we're not talking about what others do to us. Can't you use your own common sense Angakuk? Seriously? How can my will come into play at all when someone is physically forcing something on me?

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I explained the fact that two things being the same in preference doesn't change the fact that we are always moving in the direction of greater satisfaction, regardless of which motion we make at any given moment...
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Originally Posted by Angakuk
No, you did not explain any such fact. You tried (and failed) to argue that this is a fact.
I did explain it, but you failed to listen, because you don't believe Lessans can be right. It's so ironic because these are God's laws made manifest. And you're suppose to be the representative of God? :giggle: Why do you think Lessans included this true experience he had in the book? To point out the resistance he encountered when talking to theologians, of all people.

Decline and Fall of All Evil: Chapter One: The Hiding Place pp. 23-26

Now stop to think about this for one moment. A discovery has
been made that will go down in history as that which will change the
entire world of human relations for the better, yet because it
challenges a theory which is held by many world religions there is a
hostile reaction when it is questioned. This is a perfect example of
how this preemptive authority of false knowledge which is passed along
from generation to generation by theology, by government, and by
various other sources does not even allow a person to open his mind
to hear the explanation.

The theologians I contacted, though they
admit they pray to God for deliverance from evil also believe it is
impossible for man to accomplish this apparent miracle. In a sense
they are right because the law that was discovered is equivalent to the
law that inheres in the solar system, over which we have no control.
Any system of established dogma which shackles man’s mind and
prevents scientific investigation needs to be debunked, so that the
truth can be revealed. This is much easier said than done because the
knowledge of what it means that man’s will is not free was buried
deeper than atomic energy, and presents problems that are almost
insurmountable. Convincing a few people of this truth is one thing;
convincing the entire world is something else.

Supposing the very
people whose understanding it is necessary to reach refuse to examine
the facts on the grounds that the discovery could not be valid because
it starts out with the premise that man’s will is not free. To show you
how confused are those who have been guiding us, a rabbi was told
that the author of the book “Decline and Fall of All Evil” has the
permanent solution to every problem of human relation, and he
replied, “How do we know that God wants us to remove all evil?”
Now you tell me, if he is doubtful of this why do all theologians ask
God in the Lord’s Prayer to deliver us from evil?

Another rabbi
criticized me for not attending the synagogue to which I replied, “Isn’t
the reason you go to the Temple due to your faith in God, your belief
that one day He will reveal Himself to all mankind?” “That is true,”
he answered. “Well you see, Rabbi, the reason I don’t go to the
synagogue is because I know for a fact that God is real. I don’t have
faith or believe this; I know that 2+2=4; I don’t have faith or believe
that this is true.” Still hoping that I could convince a member of the
clergy to hear what I had to say, I phoned a Catholic priest for an
appointment and our conversation went as follows:

“What do you want to see me about?”

“Father, when you utter the words of the Lord’s Prayer I take for
granted that you are sincere and would like to see us delivered from
evil, isn’t that true?”

“Certainly, what kind of question is that?”

“Well the reason I had to ask is because I have just made a
scientific discovery that will bring about the actual fulfillment of this
prayer, this deliverance from evil.”

“What’s that you say? Deliver mankind from evil? Absolutely
impossible, it cannot be done.”

“But how can you know without first finding out what it is I have
discovered? Isn’t this your fervent wish, that God perform such a
miracle?”

“It is.”

“Well then, why don’t you let me come out and show you exactly
how all evil must decline and fall as a direct consequence?”

“It’s impossible, that’s why I’m not interested. The only time such
a world will become a reality is on Judgment Day.”

“But that’s just the point; this Judgment Day when interpreted
properly has actually arrived because it conforms to the basic
principle.”

“This still doesn’t convince me that I should devote my precious
time to what sounds ridiculous.”

“Sounds can be deceiving, Father. Who believed the first
astronomer when he predicted an eclipse or Einstein when he revealed
the potential of atomic energy? If I told you without adequate proof
that this discovery will bring about the inception of the Golden Age,
your skepticism would not be an unwarranted reaction, but the actual
proof is explicit and undeniable. It is only natural for you to be
skeptical, Father, but this is never a sufficient reason to exclude the
possibility of a scientific miracle.”

“I’m afraid that I will have to end this conversation. My advice is
to take what you have to one of the secular universities. I’m sorry I
couldn’t be more helpful but thanks for calling anyway.”
Later on, I tried to engage a pastor in a discussion about free will
and he responded to me by asking, “If man’s will is not free, then you
can’t blame or punish anything he does, is that correct?” And when
I answered, “Right,” he actually got up and walked out of the room.
You see, this learned ignorance presents quite a problem, and only by
getting the world to understand what it means that man’s will is not
free can I hope to break through this barrier.

This law of our nature
is not a premise, not an assumption, not a theory, but when 98% of
the world believes otherwise, they might just close the windows of their
mind to any scientific investigation which requires rejecting a theory
that has dogmatically controlled man’s thinking since time
immemorial. How is it possible to explain the solution when nobody
wishes to listen because they think they know there isn’t any? Where
is there one iota of difference between this attitude and that of our
ancestors regarding the shape of the earth? To show how confused is
the thinking of the average person who is not accustomed to
perceiving mathematical relations of this nature, when I told someone
that his answer was incorrect, he replied with a tone of resentment,

“That’s your opinion, but I believe it is possible,” as if the answer
could be one or the other. The earth cannot be round and flat, it has
to be one or the other and your opinion can never change what is.
Remember, I am going to bring about an unprecedented change in
human conduct, but I can only do this if you understand what I am
about to reveal. If you can’t follow my reasoning as to why the earth
is round, you will be compelled to believe that it is flat for it gives you
satisfaction not to be wrong. In other words, if I were going to offer
an opinion as to why man’s will is not free, then your educational
rank, your scholarly background could assert itself as a condition more
valid to deny my claim, but when I declare that I am not going to
reveal a theory but will give a scientific, undeniable, demonstration,
then regardless of who you are you must wait to see the proof before
rejecting the claim.

Therefore, it is imperative that you know, well in
advance, that my reasoning will be completely mathematical, scientific
and undeniable; so if you find yourself in disagreement you had better
reread that which you disagree, otherwise, your stubborn resistance,
your inability to perceive these relations will only delay the very life
you want for yourself. Many philosophers consider the discussion of
whether man’s will is, or is not, free equivalent to the discussion as to
what came first — the chicken or the egg. To them, what difference
does it really make? But if this knowledge can put an end to all war,
crime, and evil in general, it makes a very big difference and it is
imperative that the world listen so that this evil in our lives can come
to a permanent end.






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  #10074  
Old 06-17-2012, 01:52 PM
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

Quote:
Therefore, it is imperative that you know, well in advance, that my reasoning will be completely mathematical, scientific and undeniable; so if you find yourself in disagreement you had better reread that which you disagree, otherwise, your stubborn resistance, your inability to perceive these relations will only delay the very life you want for yourself.
LOL, I am 100% right and if you disagree you are stubborn and unable to perceive the relations I came up with which are 100% right.

Yeah, humble guy right there.

You don't want to admit you couldn't see the Emperor's new clothes, doesn't mean the rest of humanity can't see that he's naked as a jaybird.
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  #10075  
Old 06-17-2012, 01:58 PM
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LadyShea LadyShea is offline
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Default Re: A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

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Why do you think Lessans included this true experience he had in the book?
How is a reader to know which of the numerous conversations were true experiences and which you added yourself as illustrations?
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Angakuk (06-18-2012)
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